Mike in KC No , we dont have to do a QE3 .... where i come from in the adirondacks... the original natives.... no not the convicts running from the law hiding out in the mts... the native americans have a canoe called a War Canoe.... this is an eight seater.... nowadays we use them for racing..... these are big enough for all of us. I figure.... Mike in KC, Mike Jacob, Sal, Me, Erik Olson, David Y.... we just need one more.... I select Rich G..... sals and my friend.... Thats one hell of a team..... Me in the back steering,... Sal up front singing us on to Victory. WooooooHooooooo Im ready to Race!!!! John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com.