Okay lets see what can I say without getting flamed by everyone<G> It might be that they are a little young yet to tell. My triple red females have also been coming out with a lot more color them I'm use to seeing. The males will definitely get bigger then the females. I use to think black pelvics were the way but, I found out that's not true. Sometimes I can't tell for sure until the female is glowing yellow. I mean a real bright yellow unlike the little you might see in the males body. The male will definitely develop a lyre tail where the female will stay blunt rounded type. Off the top of my head that's about all I can come up with. Take good care of them feed them well and give them good clean water and if there is a female she will be glowing yellow before you know it. JerryB www.ApistoWorld.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the Apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. apisto-digest@listbox.com also available. Web archives at http://lists.thekrib.com/apisto