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Re: List of ID corrections was Ap. jurua
Dave,
You bring up a good point. Species IDs are always biased by the identifier. This
is the old 'lumper vs. splitter' problem. Still, there are obvious errors in
every book. All it takes is new information. Any ID list that I make will have
my bias, of course. Right now I prefer to play it safe & split as much as
possible. As I've said before, if you split & keep 'forms' true, then you can
always cross them when you find that 2 forms are the same species. If you cross
2 forms and then discover that they are different species, there's a chance that
you will lose 1 or both pure species in the hobby.
So the question now is whether it is better to be a lumper or a splitter.
Ongoing DNA studies are pointing to the probability that there are more distinct
species than mere geographic populations of apistos. DNA studies have already
shown that the genetic difference between A. caetei from the type locality (Rio
Caeté) and A. cf. caetei (Guamá) from the Rio Guamá are greater than the
difference in mitochondria between all species of Mbuna in Lake Malawi - and
this includes species in different genera! This is very disturbing to me
because these 2 forms are found in neighboring streams within a few miles of
each other. These 2 caetei-complex fish that are virtually identical when
preserved. The type form of A. caetei is somewhat more colorful than the Guamá
form when alive. Are these 2 forms distinct species? If we say they are the same
species, then do we lump all Malawi Mbuna into a single species?
Additional published information indicates that Apistogramma is one of the 5
fastest changing (dare I use the word evolving) genera of South American
cichlids. There is also geologic data out there that, if correct, would indicate
that much of this 'speciating' probably occurred over just the past 3000 years!
A very scary thought indeed.
Mike Wise
David Soares wrote:
> Hey Mike mis-identified according to who? This stuff gets thrashed over so
> much it almost doesn't mean anything I think all the major players disagree
> on the id of a lot of fish so you end up just going in circle man
> Soft Water Dwarf Cichlids
> Uwe Romer & David Soares
> 14697 S. Bluegrass Ln.
> Sisters OR, 97759
> Phone/541-549-9350
> apistodave@bendcable.com
> www.apistogrammaidiots.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ray Ravary, Jr." <rravary@provide.net>
> To: <apisto@listbox.com>; <apistowise@fgn.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 1997 2:24 AM
> Subject: Re: List of ID corrections was Ap. jurua
>
> > Mike,
> >
> > Do you have an errata file we could download with all the errors you
> know of
> > in the different books and editions? If you are keeping a list compiling
> it by
> > book and edition would really be great. Many people don't buy multiple
> editions
> > of books. Well anyhow I would love to get a copy of that list. See--- we
> will end
> > up talking you into a book yet.
> >
> > R3
> > (long time lurker)
> >
> > Mike & Diane Wise wrote:
> >
> > > Yvan,
> > >
> > > I've been thinking of doing this, not only for
> > > Uwe's book but for the Aqualog,
> > > Linke & Staeck, & Mayland & Bork books, too. It
> > > will take a while. You'd be
> > > surprised at the number of apistos that are
> > > misidentified, in my opinion. I
> > > hope to have it on the ASG web site along with a
> > > list of common names/synonmyms
> > > for apistos. In this way there would be a
> > > clearinghouse for names used for
> > > different apistos (over 300 right now!). Right now
> > > I have too many other
> > > projects to start it right away. From what I
> > > understand, Uwe's volume 2 will
> > > deal with mostly new species. Hopefully he will
> > > have an 'errata' section for
> > > vol. 1, too. BTW I don't know if I've mentioned
> > > it, but Linke & Staeck put out
> > > updated editions of their dwarf cichlid books
> > > (African & American) last year -
> > > only in German.
> > >
> > > Mike Wise
> > >
> > > Yvan Alleau wrote:
> > >
> > > > Mike,
> > > > what about posting on the web or just in that list corrections about
> > > > apisto's misidentification (for whatever reason) in Uwe's book.
> > > > It might be also the reason why they are talking about a second volume
> of
> > > > the book to add to the first one and correct some errors.
> > > >
> > > > Yvan Alleau
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com.
> > > > For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help,
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> available.
> > > > Web archives at http://lists.thekrib.com/apisto
> > > >
> > >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > > For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help,
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> available.
> > > > Web archives at http://lists.thekrib.com/apisto
> > >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help,
> > > email apisto-request@listbox.com. apisto-digest@listbox.com also
> available.
> > > Web archives at http://lists.thekrib.com/apisto
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com.
> > For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help,
> > email apisto-request@listbox.com. apisto-digest@listbox.com also
> available.
> > Web archives at http://lists.thekrib.com/apisto
> >
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help,
> email apisto-request@listbox.com. apisto-digest@listbox.com also available.
> Web archives at http://lists.thekrib.com/apisto
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