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Re: List of ID corrections was Ap. jurua
I think that the ongoing process of evolution within the species is exciting
and one of the more exciting aspects for me are the so-called bridge species
(elizabethea for one) is a real exciting concept because the evolution might
be taking place and be evident right under our eyes!
Soft Water Dwarf Cichlids
Uwe Romer & David Soares
14697 S. Bluegrass Ln.
Sisters OR, 97759
Phone/541-549-9350
apistodave@bendcable.com
www.apistogrammaidiots.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike & Diane Wise" <apistowise@fgn.net>
To: <apisto@listbox.com>
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 8:09 AM
Subject: Re: List of ID corrections was Ap. jurua
> Dave,
>
> You bring up a good point. Species IDs are always biased by the
identifier. This
> is the old 'lumper vs. splitter' problem. Still, there are obvious errors
in
> every book. All it takes is new information. Any ID list that I make will
have
> my bias, of course. Right now I prefer to play it safe & split as much as
> possible. As I've said before, if you split & keep 'forms' true, then you
can
> always cross them when you find that 2 forms are the same species. If you
cross
> 2 forms and then discover that they are different species, there's a
chance that
> you will lose 1 or both pure species in the hobby.
>
> So the question now is whether it is better to be a lumper or a splitter.
> Ongoing DNA studies are pointing to the probability that there are more
distinct
> species than mere geographic populations of apistos. DNA studies have
already
> shown that the genetic difference between A. caetei from the type locality
(Rio
> Caeté) and A. cf. caetei (Guamá) from the Rio Guamá are greater than the
> difference in mitochondria between all species of Mbuna in Lake Malawi -
and
> this includes species in different genera! This is very disturbing to me
> because these 2 forms are found in neighboring streams within a few miles
of
> each other. These 2 caetei-complex fish that are virtually identical when
> preserved. The type form of A. caetei is somewhat more colorful than the
Guamá
> form when alive. Are these 2 forms distinct species? If we say they are
the same
> species, then do we lump all Malawi Mbuna into a single species?
>
> Additional published information indicates that Apistogramma is one of the
5
> fastest changing (dare I use the word evolving) genera of South American
> cichlids. There is also geologic data out there that, if correct, would
indicate
> that much of this 'speciating' probably occurred over just the past 3000
years!
> A very scary thought indeed.
>
> Mike Wise
>
> David Soares wrote:
>
> > Hey Mike mis-identified according to who? This stuff gets thrashed over
so
> > much it almost doesn't mean anything I think all the major players
disagree
> > on the id of a lot of fish so you end up just going in circle man
> > Soft Water Dwarf Cichlids
> > Uwe Romer & David Soares
> > 14697 S. Bluegrass Ln.
> > Sisters OR, 97759
> > Phone/541-549-9350
> > apistodave@bendcable.com
> > www.apistogrammaidiots.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ray Ravary, Jr." <rravary@provide.net>
> > To: <apisto@listbox.com>; <apistowise@fgn.net>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 1997 2:24 AM
> > Subject: Re: List of ID corrections was Ap. jurua
> >
> > > Mike,
> > >
> > > Do you have an errata file we could download with all the errors
you
> > know of
> > > in the different books and editions? If you are keeping a list
compiling
> > it by
> > > book and edition would really be great. Many people don't buy multiple
> > editions
> > > of books. Well anyhow I would love to get a copy of that list. See---
we
> > will end
> > > up talking you into a book yet.
> > >
> > > R3
> > > (long time lurker)
> > >
> > > Mike & Diane Wise wrote:
> > >
> > > > Yvan,
> > > >
> > > > I've been thinking of doing this, not only for
> > > > Uwe's book but for the Aqualog,
> > > > Linke & Staeck, & Mayland & Bork books, too. It
> > > > will take a while. You'd be
> > > > surprised at the number of apistos that are
> > > > misidentified, in my opinion. I
> > > > hope to have it on the ASG web site along with a
> > > > list of common names/synonmyms
> > > > for apistos. In this way there would be a
> > > > clearinghouse for names used for
> > > > different apistos (over 300 right now!). Right now
> > > > I have too many other
> > > > projects to start it right away. From what I
> > > > understand, Uwe's volume 2 will
> > > > deal with mostly new species. Hopefully he will
> > > > have an 'errata' section for
> > > > vol. 1, too. BTW I don't know if I've mentioned
> > > > it, but Linke & Staeck put out
> > > > updated editions of their dwarf cichlid books
> > > > (African & American) last year -
> > > > only in German.
> > > >
> > > > Mike Wise
> > > >
> > > > Yvan Alleau wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Mike,
> > > > > what about posting on the web or just in that list corrections
about
> > > > > apisto's misidentification (for whatever reason) in Uwe's book.
> > > > > It might be also the reason why they are talking about a second
volume
> > of
> > > > > the book to add to the first one and correct some errors.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yvan Alleau
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > > >
> > > >
> >
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> > > >
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> >
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> > >
> >
>
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> > For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help,
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available.
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>
>
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> For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help,
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available.
> Web archives at http://lists.thekrib.com/apisto
>
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