Hi Ray I`m George from Montreal who is spawning the elizabethae. I been breeding them for 1 & 1/ 2 years now. I have the pair in a 15 gallon tank,with gravel ,plants, coconut shells and a box filter I use R.O water 80% and the rest is tap,which isn`t that hard either (120 ppm, PH 7.0) P.H is under 6.0 and hardness is around 20 ppm The spawning part was very easy for me,but keeping the fry`s alive was very hard At first I had a very high date rate of fry`s,over 90% The hardest part for me, is that the fry`s are very delicate to water changes,the first 2-3 months Very small water changes I did breed the off spring once so far,only 8 fry`s Good Luck George ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. apisto-digest@listbox.com also available. Web archives at http://lists.thekrib.com/apisto