Hello David You were talking about the fish that have been have been inbred for generations for color.. The strain of triple reds i am working with right now are my own fish from fish i have been breeding for at least 8 years now... generation down to next generation. Yes i get those females with tons of color, but.... and i say but.. i do not use those as my breeder females... I find a nice healthy looking female, stout bright yellow with almost no color on her fins and use them....i guess as much a throw back to the wild color form of cacatuoides as possible in captive bred fish. These females always spawn for me and are great mothers... i have 2 pairs im working with that came from late last summers spawns.... they are spawning like clock work for me now.... im too the point that i dont know where to put this last batch that is in the tank with the parents now... one pair has spawned 4 times in the last 2 months... good sized spawns too...come end of summer im gonna be over run with them.... With this recent spawn of wild caught pair... it will give me good fish to cross into my triple red line to improve the quality of the fish and the line. John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. apisto-digest@listbox.com also available. Web archives at http://lists.thekrib.com/apisto Trading at http://blox.dropship.org/mailman/listinfo/apisto_trader