I don't chime in much, but I don't hesitate when I have a question. Surely someone out there knows something about what I am going to ask/suggest. First question: Why don't the "experts" get together and agree on a species sample of each apisto. In other words, you have a fish, get 3 guys together in the US, agree that that particular fish is representative for the species, then get a second opinion from overseas (to avoid any conflict). Then get a few scales and extract the DNA and analyze it. OK, I know. Who has the money for that? I don't, but isn't there some type of wild-life protection group that does? perhaps a governmental grant of some kind could fund this. It would be a great case since we lose millions of unknown species each year from the rainforest. Also it could be used by anyone studying evolutionary trends. It wouldn't take that long and wouldn't cost THAT much. this could be done for each fish (apisto. or any others; but for this list apisto). The trick would be to determine the quantity for each species, so not to confuse some crazy penotypic-mutation in one type, for an entirely different species. It would basically eliminate the whole "I call it this, but he calls it that." Anyone know if this can be done, or did I just waste 5 minutes on nothing? Archie Christian Creator & Author of "An Idiots Guide to Guiding Idiots" Phone (443) 287-3053 Pager (410) 283-9300 Email Achrist@jhmi.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. apisto-digest@listbox.com also available. Web archives at http://lists.thekrib.com/apisto Trading at http://blox.dropship.org/mailman/listinfo/apisto_trader