Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but the leaves won't turn totally brown even if you leave them out to dry. The trees pull back their chlorophyll in the fall yeilding the colors we see as brown, yellow and red which are the secondary colors. I know that the pin oak leaves I collect stay green/brown mottled even when submerged for a month or more. I haven't noticed any negative impact in my tanks. On a related note, I have now been using dead Gardenia leaves in a tank with pencilfish for a month with no negative effects. The leaves were brown, dead and on top of the soil in the pot when I collected them. Of course there is the question why.. I just happened to like the look of them and wanted to break up the monotony of the oak leaf shape in my tank. Nice point of the gardenia leaves is that they are quite sturdy and are holding up very well. Gardenia plants have thick cuticles and are quite shiny while alive, so I think this is preventing an accelerated breakdown of the dead leaf tissue. The gardenia leaves also color the water yellow, at a faster rate than oak leaves in fact. While I am not 100% sure that they are not toxic in any form I have had the pencilfish in the experimental gardenia-leaf tank spawn and have raised fry in the same water. I do however make 30% water changes on these tanks every week at the least. I have not yet tried the leaves out on a tank with Apistos. Last note from me, some of you may recall I have A. cf. eunotus who were refusing to spawn. Apparently they learned that I would be leaving town for a few weeks and have decided to spawn! Argh!! ;) Hope I have a few to watch and enjoy when I return. >Sarah __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. apisto-digest@listbox.com also available. Web archives at http://lists.thekrib.com/apisto Trading at http://blox.dropship.org/mailman/listinfo/apisto_trader