Re: systematics

[Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise@bewellnet.com>]

Greg & Per,

I haven't replied earlier because I've been setting up 2 new computers 
at home. It seems that my 3 kids need the computer at the same time for 
school work! This has taken some time & I still haven't got 1 internet 
capable yet. Anyway back to your questions. Yes, there are DNA studies 
going on around the world on various apisto species/groups/complexes. I 
doubt that much will be reported for a few years yet, so we will have to 
be patient.

Regarding your question about the trifasciata-group, there are many 
questions that need to be answered here. We feel comfortable that there 
are at least two species in the group: A. trifasciata and the species 
known in the hobby as A. sp. Mamoré. There are questions about A. 
maciliensis. Based on the descriptions of Hasemann & Meinken, A. 
maciliensis seems to be different from A. trifasciata. The problem is 
that it doesn't quite conform with A. sp. Mamoré either. There are 
variations in forms of A. trifasciata or A. sp. Mamoré in the middle Rio 
Guaporé - in the area that is the type locality of A. maciliensis. So 
far no fish that conform exactly to A. maciliensis have been found in 
the area. Thus we have the question: Is A. maciliensis a valid species. 
If it is, is it the same as A. sp. Mamoré? Römer believes that it is. 
Kullander & others are not so certain.

With regards to the A. macmasteri vs. A. viejita question, it remains 
somewhat the same. Domestic strains of both species are most likely 
crosses of the 2 closely related species. Wild macmasteri rarely have a 
lyre tail or red top to the dorsal fin. The real A. viejita has entered 
the hobby in the past year and most experieced apistophiles can easily 
see differences in it, A. macmasteri, & what has been called "A. 
viejita" in the past. Then there are closely related forms (species?) 
like viejita Color Form II that are as different from A. viejita as 
viejita is from A. macmasteri. Right now many people consider viejita 
(CF I) & CF II the same species, but if they are, then they should be 
considered the same as A. macmasteri. More collecting is needed to 
understand this problem. Until then I will consider them all different 
from each other.

Mike Wise

Per Wigstal wrote:

> Hi
>
> I noted that you haven´t got any replies. I don´t have the answer to your question, but I think that your question is very interesting. Especially the big Trifasciata confusion is a matter to discuss further.
>
> The Apisto world seems to have a lot of "enigmas". 
> Resticulosa, Pulchra, Steelblue and the Trifasciata are some examples.
>
> Best regards/ Per
>
>
> Grzegorz Prusinowski <gprusinowski@poczta.onet.pl> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've heard roumors of some DNA research in Apistogramma
> (could have sth to do with one Mike W. being on ACA...:-)
> and some systematic revolution in trifasciata complex. could
> anyone comment on it?
> I have a few fish, that I am not sure what they are. Well,
> Uwe Roemer calls them A. maciliensis and Mike Wise points at
> "Mamore".
> The other thing is A. macmasteri vs viejita (various
> forms) - I must say not Mayland&Bork nor Roemer explained
> the difference to me. I also searched the archive for this
> but couldn't find answer, that would leave me without
> doubts.
> As the discussions happened some time ago, perhaps there are
> some new facts to consider?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Greg
> Grzegorz Prusinowski
> www.apisto.pl
>
>
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