Folks, I've seen the aforementioned A. "Blue" in one of the shops and wonder what they are? The only info I found came from Mike W. (some time ago) saying it's a hybrid. They look pretty much like A. caetei, have pale orange tail and irridescent blue spots on the body. perhaps a few small red dots on the cheeks are involved too. Any idea on what could they be? Perhaps something changed since last time I checked? Now the other one: I talked to quite a few discuss keepers and breeders and they say that, if spawning is not considered, their fish are very happy in hard and alcalic tap water (pH 7,5, GH 10-15). They start to accustom one month old fry to those conditions and there are no problem with growing, death rate - nothing. I was given one example of a discus pair living in those conditions for 17 years and still spawning (when needed) - so the life span doesn't seem to be affected. the same with rams - I've never seen bigger and more colourful fish than those kept in tap water and fed with life food - no other "magic" involved. Being lazy by nature and having no possibility to use RO I started to tinker... perhaps the apistogramma _could_ do as well in such conditions? perhaps, if the exchanges are more frequent and bigger, they will grow better and the other parameters are of no (or secondary) importance? I know Roemer indicates in certain cases that too high values of pH and hardness (conductivity) can negatively effect the lifespan. I realize some imported fish could have a hard time if the parameters change too rapidly, but hey, most of the wholesalers (at least in Poland) try to accomodate the fish to local water as soon as they arrive, as do the shops... Well, I'm still a newbee - what do you think? Regards Greg Prusinowski www.apisto.pl ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. apisto-digest@listbox.com also available. Web archives at http://lists.thekrib.com/apisto Trading at http://blox.dropship.org/mailman/listinfo/apisto_trader