hey thanks for the information Vito. It is important that we specialize. I think it is good that we do not all think alike. I think there are benefits for all here. On the one hand conserving the wild stocks and supporting project piaba is a wonderfull endeavor. Many Apisto folks will want to adhere to that and perhaps we can call them purists. I see a need for this and I also work with wild fish. However on the flip side we must not ignore that Apistos are becoming "fancy" or better put we are developing new and exciting color varities. A.cacatoudies gold, triple red, sunset , sunburst etc etc I think most casual hobbyists and many non apisto folks will be attrcated to these. Also for the serious breeder it opens up the possability of working with a fish for several years and meeting breeding goals and getting much rewards from our hard work. Honestly wild apistos are more work they die often after months of looking fine. I have dissceted many many apistos and no matter what quarantine protocols you use i feel we cannever say with 100% assurity they are clean. On the otherhand wild apistos are especialy easy to breed. After a long hardship they seem jump back well and breed, probably because this may resemble what happens in the wild after the dry season is over. Also i feel wild apistos do not compare with line bred Apistos from Europe not just in color but desease resistance and what I like to call domesticated apistos. Because they are not shy they swim out in the open and eat right in front of you . as we all know we have to plant heavily our tanks for wild apistos. Anyway i think we have reasons to do both and we should have some purists but with the advent of all these fancy lines of apistos I think most of the excitment and popularity will come from the so called fancy or line bred apistos from Europe. It would in fact be nice if we american breeders can begin to not just try and breed our fish or be collectors but that we start working seriously with our fish. I hope this starts a good discussion. have a nice weekend all. dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. apisto-digest@listbox.com also available. Web archives at http://lists.thekrib.com/apisto Trading at http://blox.dropship.org/mailman/listinfo/apisto_trader