>>I couldn't find: A. coriati, juruensis, ramirezi, ortmanni. i just picked up 'Dwarf Cichlids' by Linke & Staeck. A must have book for any apisto or dwarf lover. Anyways here is what I found out on what your asking. A. coriati -> nothing listed in the book. A. juruensis -> nothing listed in the book. A. ramirezi -> Thought that was the old name for the ram?? I think it is now called Papilichromis ramirezi. A. ortmanni -> Pg 102 Linke/Staeck. Lets see, here is a desc. Elongated body-shape. Cadual fin is rounded whilst the dorsal and anal fins are long drawn. Tip of the enlarged dorsal fin reach up to the soft soection of the anal fin, if pressed against the body. The picture has a thick dark black band on the side, from the back of the eye to the tail. The tail has 7 bands of black. not one of the more colorful apistos, but definatly cool. It also says captive breeding is not as easy. Needs low ph, less then 5 the book says, but who knows, with an aquarium breed strain, they just might be easier. I'd get em to just have them Also try looking at http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/7918/ Thats Dave Soares I think. he has some great color pics. Laters!! o------------------------------o | mcgrath@mad.scientist.com | | ----- | | IF YOU SEND ME JUNK MAIL, | I I WILL RUIN YOUR PUNY LIFE | | ----- | | www.citilink.com/~mcgrath | o------------------------------o