I'll add my 2 cents to the filter issue. I agree that UGFs tend to suck down too much poo and possibly fry if they're "normal" flow. If they're reverse flow, then I'd want some form of pre-filtering like a sponge, so I might as well just stick with the sponge only. Bob Dixon, could you give a more detailed description of your DIY air-driven reverse UGF... I am interested in how this works, since I've only ever encountered powerhead-driven RUGFs. One problem for us using UGFs is we usually have very little (or no) gravel in our apisto breeding tanks, so it'd hardly suffice for the filter bed. We end up keeping all the plants either a) tied to bogwood pieces, b) potted, or c) floating. :) We end up using Hydro sponge filters or in a pinch, a corner box filter. We like the sponges because about the only thing we spend money on is new airstones once a year (optional). We heard Wayne Leibel talk a few weeks ago, and he swears by box filters, saying they're the easiest thing to clean. Personally, they're annoying because it's more of a pain to pull out & replace the dacron (as opposed to squeezing out the sponge in the old tank water). But box filters can be nice for layering in peat or other additives. Different strokes... - Erik - --- Erik Olson eriko at wrq.com