In a message dated 97-11-02 02:15:27 EST, Erik wrote: << Hey, that reminds me; a couple weeks back Dave Soares told us he found a very dark, almost black, play sand at plain-old home centers that worked great for his fish. We've been casually checking to see if we can find such a thing at "our" home centers here... but sounds like such a thing might give you the best of both worlds: sand for the fish to sift through and that won't let eggs get stuck in the cracks, and dark colored so they won't be skittish. >> Which in turn reminds me. Many years ago ( I would reveal my antiquity if I told you how many) I was at a beach about 60 miles south of Buffalo, NY. I think it was Dunkirk Beach. There was an outcropping of black slate on the north end of the beach that had been pounded by the waves of Lake Erie until it was about the same texture as course sand. At the time, I thought about using it as a substrate, but didn't have anything to collect it in. If anyone lives in the area, it might be worth checking out. But clean it thouroughly, as the Great Lakes are not known for their pristine water quality. And be sure to bleach it for a lengthy period. I wouldn't want anyone to get zebra mussels in their tanks on my recommendations. Bob