>>while we are on the topic of P., does anyone know why the species that gave the name "krib" is not common in the hobby?<< I still see them frequently in the LFS. But most of the club members have "moved" on to the exotic African species mostly, with a few folks hooked on SA cichlids. There seems to be an unspoken push in the club to earn BAP points. So I see some of the top breeders cycling through species; breed 'em, dump 'em and move on to the next. I think sometimes it's forgotten that even the old standards like Kribs and Rams can still be fun to have and watch. Bill Vannerson http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/william_vannerson