Re: Panduro

[cfonda@sentientconsult.com]

Jason wrote:

>Hi all
>I was just talking to someone who has been importing Apistos for 20 years
(I
>don't want to name him!) and he was questioning whether  A.panduro was
really
>a valid species.  The points raised were these:
>
>-Why do waters that have been well collected suddenly yield a new species?
>

Very few individuals know where A. panduro's are collected.  (It seems to
be a closely guarded secret, though I have heard that Romer's new book will
have the info.)  I believe that Julio knows, but he was in S.A. last I
knew.  Also, heavily collected waters are no more immune to new discovery
than any other waters -- new discovery may be less likely, but it is not
that uncommon.

>-Apistos sp. apparently get offered for sale a couple of months here and
>there, but not steadily for a year and half as for A. panduro.
>

A. panduro is not A. sp. panduro any longer... Romer published the original
description of the fish in JACA.  He ticked the classification experts off
because JACA is a "hobby" journal.  Kullander himself later "re-did" the
description and had it "properly" published.  (I use the quotes because
these are the claims of others, with which I neither agree nor disagree.)
Both Romer and Kullander agreed that this fish is indeed a distinct
species.  (Part of how Romer ticked the classification people off,
aparently, was that he performed cross-breeding experiments with A. panduro
and A. nijsenni to confirm that they were not the same species and they
thought this was "improper".)  The upshot is that A. panduro is a fully
described species.  (Now, whether you want to call it panduro or pandurini
might be another issue.)

>-There seems to be a lot of variation between individuals eg.amount of
black
>markings, some have orange ring around whole edge of caudal, some only on
the
>top and bottom.  General inconsistencies.
>

There is always some variation.  The orange ring on A. panduro's is about
as consistant as that on A. nijsenni... meaning not at all.  Really cool
specimens, IMHO, have a brilliant ring around the whole edge.  The major
differences I have noticed between panduro's and nijsenni's is that the
panduro's have more blue to their body color and will, under the right
conditions, show a dark blue (almost black) triangle starting on the caudal
peduncle and extending into the caudal fin, which the nijsenni lack.
(Note... these are the male markings... I am not as strong on the
diffenences between the females.  With a female in front of me, I can
usually say which it is, but don't ask how I know.  There are people on
this list, however, who can give a definitive list of the differences
between the females without having to look it up.)

>- Peru seems to be farming a lot of fish so what is sold as wild caught
might
>not necessarily be so.
>

This seems to be a matter to take up with your importer/seller.  A good
importer knows his source well.  And a good fish store knows its importers
well.  I know I trust both the fish store and importer mine came from.

>I was just wondering whether any of you had actually caught any or whether
>anyone has heard something similar.
>
>I'd hate to think my panduro were some kind of fraud!
There may well be some unscrupulous individuals in this world selling
nijsenni's as panduro's... but the two fish definitely exist as distinct
species.

--Cliff



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