All of this is making sense to me. I had to leave town suddenly in the summer, and in an effort to save some delicate killie fry, threw clumps of green thread algae from my pond into 4 12 gallon fry tanks. When I returned 3 weeks later, I had exactly the same number of young killies, from all 4 species, possibly even bigger than they would have been on bbs. I hadn't lost one fry in spite of the lovely blue darner/dragonflies buzzing around the fluorescents. Now, these weren't apistos,but they were difficult species I'd say are as hard to raise as young apistos. I also once entirely missed a group of N transvestitus fry (I shouldn't admit this) for a few weeks, and they grew normally. Their tank was a driftwood and java moss jungle, with 3 inches of hornwort on the surface. I feed fewer bbs than I used to, and make sure my grow out tanks have a lot of plants. -Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@majordomo.pobox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!