>After reading David's description I was confused by the vague >allusions to certain features than I should be, and it's probably >due to the figures of speech used. (You write too much like Ingo >Koslowski!)... This, then, is not a good thing? >...At 1" they're probably too small to accurately ID anyway, unless >there is some unique detail I missed in your description... I'm making that assumption also. The fish appear to be in the beginning stages of maturity, with slight traces of dimorphism showing (teenage adolescence?). They are a fairly shy fish at this point, and after a week are finally starting to accept limited foods, so I will attempt to provide as much of the detail as possible without physically disturbing the tank or its environment. References to male and female are assumed from this point based on a combination the slight dimorphs and an apparent "pairing off" - two pairs of the six always remain with each other while the remaining two fish seem to be "on their own". If they turn out to be harem brooders this is fine, as the odd two strike me as females, but early indications are to individual pairs. Source: I touched on the non-availability of specifics concerning any references to source. It seems that the wholesaler (out of Atlanta) commonly combines unknowns and differing "lots" and locations without regard to tracking info. Here in Chattanooga, you're often stuck with "You gets what you gets". Had any info been available, its accuracy would be very questionable, so there goes a prime indicator... Body shape: The closest match to general body shape that I can find are the video stills Erik maintains for A. piauiensis. It's also a good match for generalized fin shapes. Differences include 1. A more pronounced "underbite" to the mouth. 2. The leading black vertical spike on the dorsal is preceeded by a 2 - 3 spine clear patch. The dorsal blotches from the vertical bars of the body almost join to make a continuous line. A couple of the specimens have bright red patches in the little space that is between the blotches. The dorsal itself begins at the leading (front) edge of the 2nd vertical bar (discounting the orbital), the extension begins at the leading edge of the 5th, and the dorsal ends at the trailing edge of the 6th. One of the signs of dimorphism I'm using is the generalized male extension, longer and sharply defined as opposed to the female's shorter, rounded dorsal trail. 3. The anal fins appear to follow the same male/female characteristics - either extended or rounded by gender. 4. The ventral fins, at least in this stage of growth, don't appear as tapered as most other apistos or cichlids in general - it is rounder, rather than having a "feeler" look. 5. Both ventral and anal fins have black leading edges. 6. Pectorals are large and rounded, like a wicker hand fan. Lateral spot: I see no evidence at this time of a lateral spot, although there is a small, clearly-defined pectoral spot on half the specimens. Lateral band: To be perfectly honest, I've been staring at these fish for evidence of a lateral band for so long that I can't be sure if I'm seeing things or not. I think I'm trying to force myself to see one, but don't count on it. If present, it isn't displayed with any frequency or predictability. Caudal spot: The caudal spot occupies the middle third of the penduncle, rectangular in shape with the long axis parallel to the fish's. Most of the time when the last vertical bar is showing, it does not join completely with the spot except along the leading edge. When the fish is facing the viewer's left, the effect is a large, block letter capital "E". The only indication of coloring or patterning in the tail is the small, faint arch of color presented just behind the caudal spot. The only other thing that I can relate happened while observing the fish for your indicators. The two males began shadow boxing, displaying to each other in a head-to-tail fashion with the usual shimmies, etc. Unlike any other fish that I can recall, these two darkened *considerably* while sparring, including finnage. Had I seen these two in this state, without the other observational clues, I would not have believed them to be the same fish. The only other time I've seen a fish darken to that degree was an extremely ailing Discus - and he certainly wasn't able to switch it on and off with such rapidity. Final point: I've kept 5 species of apistos over the years, but wasn't deeply interested until about a year ago. My library doesn't presently include specialized titles on the subject. And thanks for the effort, Mike. -Y- David A. Youngker http://www.mindspring.com/~nestor10 nestor10@mindspring.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@majordomo.pobox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!