Just to add an element to this interesting thread. I find different growth rates for different groups within the apisto universe. Agas, cacatuoides, regani group fish and some others grow like weeds for me. However, the mcmasteri group have been different for me. I kept veijita for a few years, and they took forever to mature. Now, I have a young pair of hongsloi that have taken months to spawn (yesterday, at last!). Has anyone else had this experience? Gary Ps - oddly, I have had apisto pairs defy logic and slow down their spawning with too many water changes. I assume it's beyond the test kit range variablity in the water I give them, or maybe wintertime oxygen saturation, but it has been there. Stable and clean has done it for me. I have some killie species which won't lay eggs until a week after water changes. These are creatures that need the same water as my apistos. What works works. Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@majordomo.pobox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!