First of all thanx for the quick replies... >From these replies I have learned several things: In my 20 gallon, keeping a harem of agassizii is a bad idea. Even, keeping agassizii with my limited dwarf knowledge is a bad idea. So, I'm better of with cacatuoides or borellii. I read in A. Konings cichlidbook (the green one) that cacatuoides only live 9 months, borellii gets to two years average. That's why I didn't pick cacatuoides in the first place, so I guess borellii is my next choice. Now, could I get away with two females and one male borellii in the 20 long? Or should I stick with just a pair? I have tanks to give fry and aggression victims a refuge if things turn for the worse. That is by the way how I breed my central american cichlids most of the time. Give the female a tank, introduce the male, let them spawn and when the male gets aggressive (because there are no targets around) he's out of there. Oops, guess I'm off topic ;) About the water chemistry, is GH/DH of 4 too high for a borellii? Maybe I should get a RO unit afterall. Eric, sorry I puzzled you ;) I'm pretty sure about the ph of 6.4 (digital ph-meter, recalibrated yesterday just to make sure), maybe my (Tetra)GH/DH testset isn't very accurate? I do filter over peat... I'll look for leaves but I'm afraid I won't be very succes- full in mid winter and spring coming up in a few months. Guess I'll have to wait till autumn, or I could let some leaves dry on the attic... So, black neons make a good dither... They aren't very expensive here (under $1.5). I can get to white clouds too (Tanichthys alabonubes). Which one of both is the best (ie. eats less Apisto fry). Sorry for rambling on, but I wouldn't want to start uninformed ;) Thanx for any suggestions... Klaus ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@majordomo.pobox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!