I found a picture of my "double reds".In the Baensch atlas picture index there is a picture of the fish I have.They are calling it A.cf.agassizii orangeform.The picture dosnt do the fish justice though.My males are the most colorful aggi I have ever seen. John I am getting more females too.I breed mine in tap water.I got myself a ph monitor,are you ready for this-ph5.6-5.7 hardness 10ppm and 0 nitrates.Thats right out of the tap!Man,my water might be to low for certain spieces! I did a test on my iniridae tank by putting a handful of peat in a nylon in the out flow of the filter.It dropped the ph down to 4.5 and held it there for about 3 days,then it slowly rose to 4.8 and it holds it there!I cant believe my luck.I knew I had soft water,but its perfect! Vern ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@majordomo.pobox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!