G. Kadar Your water conditions are fine for the Altispinosa's. I would try seperating them or anything, just leave them all in the 30 gallon tank until they pair off. When they do pair off remove the other two fish. They won't be tolerated in the tank with the pair. I had 4 fish in 15 gallon tank and waited for mine to pair off, so a 30 gallon tank is more then big enough. Unlike their regular Rams these guys can handle the water slightly alkaline and not necessarily soft. I've seen them spawning in pet shop tanks with water conditions with pH of around 8.0 and hardness of 200ppm. I don't know if the eggs would have hatched in that water but they spawned in it. This was the tank I selected my fish out of which I later spawned. I picked what I thought were 2 males and 2 females going by their genital tubes which were down at the time. I then spawned the pair in a 10 gallon tank with a pH of 6.8 and hardness of 60 ppm, Temperature was around 80 F. They spawned out in the open in a clay flower pot saucer. They turned out to be great parents. As to how old they were I'm not sure but the fish were 2.5 to 3 inches in length when they spawned. Hope this helps. Good luck. John Wubbolt ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@majordomo.pobox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!