I've had them start spawning at about 6cm TL so you're not far away. At that size you should be able to sex them by looking for filaments beginning to form on the fins of the males. Regarding the water conditions, mine have spawned regularly in water between pH 6.5 and 7.5 and around 80F. For a while I thought that spawning frequency decreased in older individuals, but it seems that lowering the pH to about 6.0 was what was stopping my 2.5 yr olds. After raising it back to 7.0, they started up again. The one thing mine insist on for spawning is a flat rock. I've never seen them spawn in sand, on wood, or on plant leaves--it has to be a horizontal rock, even if it's only an inch long. I use them as dithers all the time. Like you said, they only squabble among themselves and they're very active. They also seem too tough to get beaten up by their tankmates. By the way, I have about a hundred of them right now and the number's not going down. I really, really hate to see a spawn wasted but these guys are so prolific they're reproducing faster than I can unload them at shops and auctions. I wish they were as "unloadable" as angelfish... --Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@majordomo.pobox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!