Hi John ! I "bred" these two years ago, albeit only a couple of small clutches/few fry. They where quite similar to A. cf. pertensis? in that they required soft and acidic water. They spawned in normal water but it wasn't until I dropped the pH below 5 (from serious peat filtration) that any eggs hatched. The conductivity was approx 60 myS/cm and temps around 26 degC. They were quite shy in my tank, a 250-litre tank with D. filamentosus, A. agassizii and Nannostomus beckfordi as dithers. Lots of plants and wood. They never really coloured up to be the nice fish I think they can be so I didn't keep them. I regret that now since I haven't seen them after that. The female was never very yellow but I think that is a pertensis-group trait since I've seen it on cf. pertensis and iniridae as well. Good luck Fredrik L. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!