I have only ever purchased one pair of rams and so far so good. They've spawned a number of times, but of course, the eggs have never hatched. They have proved to be tough little critters because the male is in and out of the guppy tank, or 'penalty box' whenever the eggs have not hatched and he harasses the female to spawn again when she's not ready. However, when I purchased the fish I did so from a store where they'd spent at least two weeks. The manager is someone who has considerable experience in dealing with stressed and diseased fish. I won't buy anything that hasn't been in the store for a couple of weeks. If I see something I like, I ask how long it's been at the store and if it has only recently arrived, I come back a week later. Expensive apistos don't usually sell very quickly, but sometimes they are all gone. I think it's still better than bringing home diseased fish and watching them die because I can't diagnose what's wrong with them. Also, new arrivals are not just labeled as to puchase price. Recently arrived shipments are kept under observation for a few days until there is a reasonable indication that they are healthy. No sale sticker goes on a tank where the fish are either too sick to treat or are receiving treatment. It sounds ideal, but it isn't. There are some fish in various tanks that I would never consider buying. Some fish arrive so debilitated that they cannot be 'revived' under store conditions. In other words, I would not buy fish, sight unseen, 'right off the truck' so to speak. If they are locally bred, (and I also do sell fish to the store occasionally), then at least I've got some idea as to the breeder and so does the store. Otherwise it's a risk I'm not willing to take. Also I've built up a customer relationship with the staff at the store, so that we understand one another as to my expectations and their ability to provide fish that are acceptable to me. It's just as important for them to have a satisfied customer as it is for me to have healthy fish. Just thought I'd put in my 2 cents worth. G. Kadar ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!