Re: species, subspecies, strains, populations, races etc.

[Piabinha@aol.com]

In a message dated 11/23/1999 2:24:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
apistowise@bewellnet.com writes:

> Ah, you found the problem. It really is them darn taxonomists messing with 
> Mother Nature. Let's face it, usually species are isolated from other 
closely 
> related species. If not, it is unlikely that they would become 
reproductively 
> separate species in the first place. If species A & B (as identified by 
taxonomists) 
> have the same (or nearly the same) genetic make up and can readily 
interbreed 
> with each other, then it would be hard to claim that they are not the same 
> species. If they cannot, which intermediates belong with which species? 
Those that 
> cannot interbreed with Sp.A but can with Sp.B would be considered 
populations of Sp.
> B and visa versa.

ok, mike, but in the example above, are there apisto populations for example 
in which you would have the intermediate populations that can breed (to 
degrees) to either A or B, but A and B cannot with each other?  is this 
possible?

> It's all systematics, after all. Whether you call it a 
> species, subspecies or a population doesn't matter to the fish as long as 
they can 
> produce healthy offspring. Good old Mother Nature doesn't care one bit 
about what is 
> or is not a species - only humans feel the need to "cubby hole" everything 
into 
> neat little boxes. As long as we all know what we are talking about, it 
doesn't 
> really matter what name you use.

lot of people think in terms of breeding barriers as defining species.  
however, tigers and lions can breed with each other, yet they are not the 
same species, right?  so the ability to make viable offspring doesn't 
necessarily make them members of the same species.

on the other hand, there are lots of livebearers, i believe, that are capable 
of interbreeding but do not.  i think derek lambert once reported that there 
are several different molly (Poecilia) [and also swordtails (Xiphophorus)] 
species that inhabit the same waters and do not interbreed, but in captivity 
they can, if there's no mate choice. 

on humans: 
>  It has been tried with genetic material recently. The results were very 
> weird to say the least. It seems that no matter what racial or ethnic make 
up we have,
>  we are all identical genetics-wise. We all have the same mitochondrial DNA 
in 
> us, meaning we all have the same great-great- great- ... great grandmother 
> somewhere back around 200,000 year ago (I guess there was an Eve). 

i believe there is a skeleton found in ethiopia that has been dubbed that, as 
it is older than lucy and i think they sort of traced all human DNA or 
ancestry back to that population to which she belonged.

> There are people 
> living in a small part of Mali, however, that show a minutely greater, but 
> significant, divergence from all other peoples of the world. The weird part 
of the study 
> was that it was found that these people also had greater divergence in 
their DNA
>  within their community than is found when comparing all of the people in 
the 
> rest of the world. Geneticists have no idea why this one small area has 
more 
> genetic variation than is seen in all of the rest of the world.

that's what i read about humans.  depending on which criteria used, 
genetically one "race" would include scandinavians, some asian groups, some 
african groups, all of these people apart from others.  there's so much we 
don't know about ourselves that it's not possible aparently to neatly 
classify us all.  which makes the census forms or all other ethnological 
divisions quite irrational.  at one point, people from india were classified 
as caucasians in the u.s., now they are lumped under "asian."  but they don't 
necessarily see themselves as either.  and people differ so much within india 
anyway.

>  I hope not. I like to think that everyone out there is part of my family.

sorry, mike, but there are some relatives i'd wish were not part of MY 
family... :-)

tsuh yang chen, nyc, USA


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