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Re: bolbitis heudelotii (plant) problem
What's true in nature doesn't necessarily follow in
captivity. If the disease you have is glugea (and
Barry Cooper, who you sent the fish to for necropsy
would know), my suggestion is to terminate all of
them, it's highly contagious to other killies and
there's no treatment. Kill the fish, bleach the tank.
I believe Barry had to do this at one point and
certainly Dan Katz from Long Island had to do this
with his impressive collection of south american
annuals. It just plain isn't a fun thing to have in
your room. I've bred 10 or so different Nothos and
many S. A. annuals and fortunately avoided the glugea
plague. Isolation is a very good thing - Dr. Brian
Watters of Vancouver (I think), who is probably the
world's leading expert on Nothobranchius, has a very
elaborate fishroom that includes a large area for
isolating incoming fish to ensure no nasties come in
with them. When I was really into fish I always
reserved a tank or two far away from the main fish
setup for isolation of suspicious fish, especially
anything wild caught.
Glugea looks like small white lumps on the fish's
body, it seems to be especially bad for annual killies
either african (nothos) or south american
("Simpsonichthys" and the ever-growing number of
genera that all used to be "Cynolebias")
As far as velvet goes, velvet likes dirty tanks and
the old timers say sunlight makes it worse. I have had
it in small crowded tanks and Nothos are a classic for
that - you hatch out 300 of them and have a 2.5 gallon
tank available for rearing them :-) Tanks get grubby
really fast. The old-timer notho breeders I knew all
kept their notho tanks immaculate (and with high
levels of salt, killies can withstand very very high
levels of salt, seawater strength is no problem as
long as its gradually introduced.)
I've also used acriflavine for velvet - Damn! That's
*two* fish medications I admit to using today. What is
going on here... Anyway, I separate out the sick fish,
treat with acriflavine (which knocks out velvet boom!
but isn't so good for fish eggs) then reintroduce and
the fish generally recover. In every case, the tank
was grubby and crowded.
Matt
--- Kate Breimayer <kate@munat.com> wrote:
> Nothobranchius killies are seasonal fish, they live
> in temporary pools
> and die off every year when they dry up, unless they
> get lucky and have
> a wet year. They spawn like crazy and the eggs are
> buried in the bottom
> of the pools, where they incubate until next years'
> rains, some even
> last another season or two in case of drought. They
> grow amazingly
> quickly and are usually gorgeous, supposedly the
> pools are full of
> debris and so difficult to see in that the males
> have to be colorful so
> the females can find them. Really amazing fish, but
> they are extremely
> sensitive to velvet. I apparently don't have a
> knack for them. I
> contacted a fish pathologist who studies this group
> of fish, he was a
> professor at Cornell and he recommended the
> flubendazole but also said
> the case was most likely hopeless and that I would
> most likely have to
> euthenize the lot. These fish evolved to live fast
> and spawn like crazy,
> and die young, they seem to have really cruddy
> immune systems. Some
> people do great with them though. And I have 3
> species here, one never
> got sick, another kicked it after treatment, the
> third is getting til
> the end of the week and then it's euthenasia. I
> can't risk splashing
> their water into my healthy tanks, or having my
> fishsitter contaminate
> other tanks with their water while I am out of town
> next week.
> Velvet sucks, don't get it. I got it twice from fish
> bought online.
> Think it's a good plan to stick to buying fish you
> can actually lay your
> eyes on first.
> I don't normally go in for medicating fish either
> but this notho
> situation, all the other killie people said
> flubendazole was a miracle
> drug and it would be a snap to deal with...
> Hydra also I have to treat. It really likes my fry.
> Any other fish seem to recover from most things with
> good diet and lots
> of water changes, and they seem to be healthier and
> stronger if raised
> in a tank with healthy plants. So most of my killies
> are in planted
> tanks and get regular changes with chemical free
> aged water, and I have
> no problems ever with 90% of my fish. Needless to
> say I did not send any
> Nothobranchius killies to the meeting and will not
> be keeping them again
> in the future, except for any offspring from the
> species that never got
> sick in the first place.
> Sometimes fishkeeping is less fun that it is at
> other times.
> Kate
>
> throatwarbler mangrove wrote:
>
> >It could be the meds. In my opinion, medicating
> fish
> >rarely works. Sounds like a combo of the rising
> salt
> >and the nasties from 'formalin' did in the plant,
> >that's not that surprising esp. salt levels.
> >
> >Also, nothobranchius killies are no less hardy than
> >any other fish - I'm sure there's more to it than
> the
> >type of fish. But, I expect we'll hear plenty about
> >killies tomorrow night.
> >
> >--- Kate Breimayer <kate@munat.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>It was the mother plant for a bunch of them, It
> was
> >>doing fine for
> >>probably a year in my tanks, and the person I got
> >>the original cutting
> >>from had hers a year. That is what is so
> >>frustrating. Grew beautifully
> >>and madly for so long and then bam, it's rotting,
> >>and it's doing so in
> >>tanks at different temps with different light,
> CO2,
> >>and stocking levels
> >>that aren't even in the same room. Granted I let
> the
> >>CO2 and fertilizer
> >>slide lately due to migraines followed by surgery
> >>but still, it grew
> >>great before I started using CO2 and fertilizer.
> >>That additional salt
> >>theory sounds kind of plausible though, and maybe
> I
> >>medicated and forgot
> >>about it. I was using meds for hydra, now that I
> >>recall, that would be
> >>formaldehyde with copper, neither is good for
> plants
> >>is it? Stupid
> >>hydra. At least that's gone for now. Now have
> >>flubendazole for fighting
> >>hydra, anyone know if that is bad for plants?
> >>Thanks,
> >>Kate
> >>
> >>throatwarbler mangrove wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>FWIW, I could never get this plant to establish
> in
> >>>
> >>>
> >>my
> >>
> >>
> >>>old fishroom. My water was very hard (so,
> anubias,
> >>>african cichlids and mexican livebearers loved
> it).
> >>>Was this an attempt to start the plant or was it
> >>>established? I think I have seen bolbitis grown
> out
> >>>
> >>>
> >>of
> >>
> >>
> >>>water and sold to the aquatic trade (much like
> >>>
> >>>
> >>those
> >>
> >>
> >>>little pine-tree plants). Plants started this way
> >>>generally have a hard time establishing
> themselves
> >>>when submerged.
> >>>
> >>>Matt
> >>>--- "Hess, Clay A" <clay.a.hess@Boeing.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Hi Kate,
> >>>>
> >>>>Have you treated your water for any type of
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>diseases
> >>
> >>
> >>>>of late? I treated my tank for parasites awhile
> >>>>back and had a similar issue with my java fern.
> I
> >>>>was using formaldahyde and found my plants did
> not
> >>>>appreciate that at all. The leaves turned black
> >>>>slowly and then broke loose of the main root and
> >>>>floated away. Just a thought. And, I do not
> think
> >>>>that this is Off Topic for this list at all. In
> >>>>fact, I think this is a great item for the list.
> >>>>
> >>>>Clay
> >>>>
> >>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>From: June Olberding [mailto:jdolb1@comcast.net]
> >>>>Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 9:29 AM
> >>>>To: gsas-member@thekrib.com
> >>>>Subject: Re: bolbitis heudelotii (plant) problem
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Hi Kate,
> >>>>I haven't had much experience with bolbitis. I
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>know
> >>
> >>
> >>>>it doesn't seem to like
> >>>>really high light environments. I know you are
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>not
>
=== message truncated ===
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