Re: [GSAS-Member] A forum

[macker <macker@gmail.com>]

I also think Scott said it well, and points well taken. I can't help but see
the negative when it comes to security issues, as I do this 24/7 for a
living and for me its like riding a bike. I just wanted to raise a few
points, food for thought to give a fair and balanced think tank.

I like posting pics too! I wish I had more! Soon friends....soon...
http://kangar.eu/dpp.php

On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Bryan Nichols <b_monius_funk@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Scott,
>
> Thanks for your input on this subject. Your opinions is important because
> of your experience in a similar situation. I agree that a forum would be a
> benefit to the club.
>
> Scott Frayo <ronscottf@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hey all, my name is Scott Frayo and I've been a member of this mailing
> list for several years now, but rarely post.  I've been reading this thread
> with interest though because I'm also President of the Pacific Northwest
> Herpetological Society (PNWHS) and a couple of years ago we faced this very
> situation.
> We had an active mailing list, but for many of the reasons already
> discussed here, we thought about going to a forum.  Sure our members liked
> the convenience of having messages directly in their personal inbox for ease
> of reading, but most preferred to not to have to read, or receive, messages
> about things that they were not that interested in.  As a board, we decided
> on a forum.  On the whole, I couldn't be happier with the results.  2 years
> later we have an active forum that draws interest from folks around the
> country.  It's a great place to both socialize and get quality information
> to questions that are posted.  Our forum is considerable more active than
> our mailing list ever was and has reached a different group of people
> interested in herps and increased membership in PNWHS.  The ability to post
> pictures is really great and again, increases interest and participation.
>  The old phrase "a picture is worth a thousand words" is very true.
> There were, of course, some of our members who were opposed to it and we
> lost a few of our regular posters who were flat-out opposed to a forum, but
> the gains have far outweighed the losses.  Are there problems?  Absolutely.
>  Occasionally we get conversations that become a bit too heated, but that's
> what the moderators are for.  And don't get me wrong, it's not like we have
> a moderator on 24/7.  We only have 2 (myself and my webmaster) who read/skim
> most of the posts at some point in time.  Our members basically fleece
> themselves and report to us via Private Messages (PMs) any concerns they
> might have.  About the whole bot posting thing, we got around that by
> putting in a very simple "type ____" when you register.  Perhaps there are
> ways of getting around that, but in 2 years we haven't had any significant
> problems.
> Overall, our forum has increased membership, encouraged more
> participation, and keeps the board more in touch with the needs and desires
> of our fellow herpers.  I highly encourage it.  If anyone wants to check
> ours out, it's at:
> http://forums.pnwhs.org
> You don't need to register to view or read it, just to post.  Hope all of
> this helps.  Good luck with whatever you decide.
>
> -----Scott
>
>
> R. Scott Frayo
> Insular Species Conservation Society (ISCS)
> Co-Managing Director
> www.iscsgroup.org
>
> Pacific Northwest Herpetological Society
> 2006 President, 2008 President
> www.pnwhs.org
>
> ----------------------------------------
> > Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 08:40:42 -0800
> > From: pwallace@u.washington.edu
> > To: gsas-member@thekrib.com
> > Subject: Re: [GSAS-Member] A forum
> >
> > Laurel:
> >
> > The board is considering options for updating the mailing list for
> images and searching and a forum.  There are enough cautionary tales of
> failed forums, MIA moderators, lawsuits, etc to warrant some caution on the
> part of the club.  I will know more shortly.  :)
> >
> > -Paul
> >
> > On Fri, 7 Mar 2008, Laurel Larsen wrote:
> >
> >> I'm sorry I'm not up on website security stuff, but your rookie
> >> comment came off a little condescending.  There seems to be a forum
> >> for everything out there, including almost every other local aquarium
> >> club.  I can't imagine that people who maintain sites with such little
> >> traffic are daily updating with the latest patches, and they don't
> >> seem to have problems with spamming, of course I'm also not a member
> >> of any of those boards, but I did have a friend who ran a few boards
> >> for years and never had problems like what you're describing.   It
> >> seems like there's interest in a board, and if you don't want anything
> >> to do with it, then you don't have to.  Bryan suggested a third party
> >> site that hosts boards and his wife has experience with them and said
> >> that she's happy with them.  Perhaps we can give this a try and if it
> >> doesn't work out, we can drop it.
> >>
> >> On Mar 6, 2008, at 8:11 PM, macker wrote:
> >>
> >>> Oh boy, spoken like rookie. PHP is easy to exploit. NO one cares
> >>> what the
> >>> site does.... an exploit is used to gain backend access, which then
> >>> comes an
> >>> IRC server used to command botnets. Or a simple mail server set up
> >>> to send
> >>> out spam and spoff the mailing list name, so everyone complains to
> >>> the list.
> >>>
> >>> I can think of over 50 ideas which I see everyday with my clients
> >>> across the
> >>> west coast. I won't even go into details, but any IT person knows the
> >>> importance of 'patching'.....
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Laurel Larsen >>>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> What abuse to computing resources would we be looking at?  There are
> >>>> many forums that require an admin "okay" to let people register.
> >>>> It's
> >>>> not as though this would be a popular enough board for it to be a
> >>>> burden for someone to "okay" membership.  I don't know if it's even
> >>>> possible, but if it were, we could have one's member number as an
> >>>> activation code or something to keep people from registering and
> >>>> spamming.  I can't imagine what else would be a problem, the GSAS
> >>>> isn't exactly 4chan or another big board/group that would be "at
> >>>> risk"
> >>>> for a hack.
> >>>>
> >>>> Laurel
> >>>> On Mar 6, 2008, at 7:58 PM, macker wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> As a security professional and Vice President of the Puget Sound
> >>>>> ISSA,  are
> >>>>> you also going to install the almost daily patches for all these PHP
> >>>>> bulletin boards to help prevent abuse of the computing resources?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I say screw it, its too much trouble. I don't mind email, and gmail
> >>>>> threads
> >>>>> them anyways.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - macker
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 3:33 PM, Laurel Larsen >>>>>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I'd be willing to help out moderating if it's needed.  I work as a
> >>>>>> receptionist in the afternoons and most of my time is spent writing
> >>>>>> papers for school and surfing the internet waiting for calls.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -Laurel
> >>>>>> On Mar 6, 2008, at 3:29 PM, Berg wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well if we decide to go down the road of setting up a forum I
> >>>>>>> have a
> >>>>>>> lot of
> >>>>>>> experience setting up phpbb and Gallery so I can help out if
> >>>>>>> needed.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Later,
> >>>>>>> Berg
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 3:05 PM, Bryan Nichols
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I agree about the "feeling like I'm spamming" argument. A forum
> >>>>>>>> would
> >>>>>>>> eliminate that for me.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I really don't think that moderating a forum would be
> >>>>>>>> difficult. It
> >>>>>>>> only
> >>>>>>>> takes a few individuals to make sure everything stays family
> >>>>>>>> friendly. With
> >>>>>>>> a group like this, I don't think we'll get into flame wars
> >>>>>>>> anyway.
> >>>>>>>> My wife
> >>>>>>>> moderates a forum and I'd be willing to moderate a GSAS forum
> >>>>>>>> along
> >>>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>>> some help if one ever materialized.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Clifford Miller  wrote:
> >>>>>>>> When I first joined up it seemed like it would be fun to have an
> >>>>>>>> easy
> >>>>>>>> place to permantently share photos.  Two things I like about a
> >>>>>>>> forum
> >>>>>>>> (and/or gallery setup) are that:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 1) Some members might post more often to a forum than a list so
> >>>>>>>> they don't
> >>>>>>>> feel like they're spamming everyone.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 2) mailing lists (that lack attachment abilities) encourage text
> >>>>>>>> linking
> >>>>>>>> from free photo-sharing sites for sharing pictures or files.
> >>>>>>>> In my
> >>>>>>>> experience, most of the things linked in list archives have long
> >>>>>>>> since
> >>>>>>>> gone missing as accounts expire or things get deleted or moved.
> >>>>>>>> Even if
> >>>>>>>> you find what you're looking for in the archives, if it's not a
> >>>>>>>> part of
> >>>>>>>> the message text, it's probably gone.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If anyone would be interested, it would be pretty trival (a
> >>>>>>>> couple of
> >>>>>>>> clicks) to add a forum or gallery setup to my existing web host,
> >>>>>>>> and since
> >>>>>>>> the account already has more storage and transfer than I'll ever
> >>>>>>>> use, it
> >>>>>>>> wouldn't cost the group anything.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I couldn't volunteer myself to police a forum or gallery full-
> >>>>>>>> time or
> >>>>>>>> anything, but as has been said, there isn't really any existing
> >>>>>>>> moderation
> >>>>>>>> going on now, so there probably wouldn't be all that much needed?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Just offering options...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Cliff
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, 5 Mar 2008, Laurel Larsen wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> but I find forums to be a little more cohesive not only than
> >>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> mailing list, but also the archive, it's easier to share photos
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> That is true about the photos.  The same scheme that keeps this
> >>>>>>>>> list
> >>>>>>>>> spam-free also is (for better or worse) what keeps us photo-
> >>>>>>>>> free.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> However, it does make me think... we could open it up to allow
> >>>>>>>>> small
> >>>>>>>> photo
> >>>>>>>>> attachments (jpeg only, say 200k total per e-mail?).  It means
> >>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>> those
> >>>>>>>>> e-mails would be larger when photos are attached.  Those
> >>>>>>>>> subscribed to
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> digest would not get the photos, but they would be available in
> >>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> archive.  If anyone has an opinion one way or another, e-mail me
> >>>>>>>>> privately... it would be easy to do this on a trial basis and
> >>>>>>>>> turn
> >>>>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>> back
> >>>>>>>>> off if it got out of hand.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> registration could be filtered allowing only members to
> >>>>>>>>>> register(with
> >>>>>>>>>> their member number).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> This is a bit more tricky, because it requires synchronizing of
> >>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> database with the forum, or someone to moderate subscribe
> >>>>>>>>> requests, etc.
> >>>>>>>>> Much like public radio, we don't actually keep non-members off
> >>>>>>>>> this
> >>>>>>>> list,
> >>>>>>>>> theory being that it may encourage them to come to a meeting
> >>>>>>>>> or an
> >>>>>>>>> auction, or even (gasp) join!
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I understand that most forums require moderation, but there is
> >>>>>>>>>> none on
> >>>>>>>>>> the mailing list and I have yet to see crazy arguments, rants
> >>>>>>>>>> or
> >>>>>>>>>> death
> >>>>>>>>>> threats.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> It's not so much the discussions getting out of hand as the
> >>>>>>>> opportunistic
> >>>>>>>>> spam bots and other completely unrelated junk that shows up.
> >>>>>>>>> It's
> >>>>>>>> really
> >>>>>>>>> nice that this list has essentially had no spam on it for
> >>>>>>>>> going on
> >>>>>>>>> nine
> >>>>>>>>> years now.  Over on the AGA forum, until we added a customized
> >>>>>>>>> 'plant
> >>>>>>>>> quiz' to the registration (something I had to custom-code), we
> >>>>>>>>> were
> >>>>>>>>> getting 2-5 messages a day posted for Cell phone accessories,
> >>>>>>>> prescription
> >>>>>>>>> drugs, and other inappropriate topics.  And they're all posted
> >>>>>>>>> by
> >>>>>>>> robots,
> >>>>>>>>> so they never stop.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> It's merely an idea that
> >>>>>>>>>> I thought I'd throw out there since many other regional clubs
> >>>>>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>>>> forums.  :)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Definitely -- don't stop with the ideas!
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> - Erik
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> Erik Olson
> >>>>>>>>> erik at thekrib dot com
> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> GSAS-Member mailing list
> >>>>>>>>> GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
> >>>>>>>>> http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> GSAS-Member mailing list
> >>>>>>>> GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
> >>>>>>>> http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>>> http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>> http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>> http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>> http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >
> >
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>
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