Re: [GSAS-Member] Was Bulk chemicals - now Salts...and fin rot in guppies...

[Laurel Larsen <laurelthequeen@gmail.com>]

I have tap water with a pH of 8.4 at home in Mountlake Terrace.  The  
pH is very high, but the buffering capacity is almost nil (2-3º KH),  
so I buffer my water to ensure that I don't get massive pH drops over  
the week as waste builds up (nitric acid).

Increasing one's GH will help to mimic the natural habitat of your  
fish.  Doing a google search for "water parameters XXfishXXX" will  
help to determine what your fish's specific needs are.  Adding just  
epsom salts to a tank will increase GH, but not necessarily mimic  
their natural habitat.  There are other minerals that are there in the  
wild that the fish "need" as well.  That's why marine salt is  
suggested in combination with epsom salts, and as 1 of 3 parts in the  
"rift lake buffer recipe" listed on cichlid-forum.

As far as I know, there are no natural algae-eaters that thrive in  
hard water conditions.  That said, I've had 2 bristlenosed plecos in  
my Malawi tank with a pH of 8.0-8.2 and gh and kh sitting around  
12-17º.  They do ok, but I'd  prefer fish that are "happy" in harder  
water.

I'm bad at diagnosing diseases/problems, but you my consider posting  
in the illness/nutrition forum at cichlid-forum.com.  They're very  
helpful, quick, and don't deal solely in cichlids.

Laurel
On Jul 27, 2008, at 10:41 PM, Connie Carlson wrote:

> 8.2 tap water??  where do you live???
>
> SO, lots of fish seem to GET salt in their tanks by their keepers,  
> but I still don't understand why.  Does it mimic some specific  
> condition in the wild?  Is it just a disease preventative??  If so,  
> what is a therapeutic level/dosage, and how do you know when you  
> have it?
>
> I am having a terrible time controlling fin rot in my guppy tank.   
> In the last month I have tried adding anywhere from 2 to 6  
> tablespoons of aquarium salt for the 29 gallon tank, added post  
> water changes; it does not seem to help a bit.  So then the  
> medications got tried.  I have treated with a fungal cure; that  
> seemed to get rid of the jagged edged cases, only to have the  
> melting tailfin type show up.  Treated that with a round of Maracyn;  
> that seemed to help the juvenille and adult guppies, but the fry  
> that were fine before, now they have tail rot even after the  
> treatments!  They look fine, and suddenly they don't; wasting away  
> from the tail forward.  Moved the fry to a new tank....  a ten  
> gallon one with coral substrate; latest thing the guy at The Fish  
> Store said to try, and I added two tablespoons of salt but that was  
> a blind guess.   Am now treating individual fry with a dose of  
> methylene blue to each fish that looks sick.  Some survive that  
> treatment some don't; too s!
> oon to tell if it is curing the overall problem.  Very  
> frustrating....  and time consuming...  and disheartening to lose  
> fish, even if they are small.  And for the record I do think it  
> started after I fed the whole group of them frozen bloodworms a few  
> times; have long since stopped.  I don't know where else all these  
> diseases could have come from.
>
> To borrow one of the pet phrases of Tom Myers (an instructor of  
> mine): The more I learn about all of this, the more I think I am  
> just reaching a higher state of confusion!
> Connie
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Trish<mailto:snips36@yahoo.com>
>  To: Greater Seattle Aquarium Society member 
> chat<mailto:gsas-member@thekrib.com 
> >
>  Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 6:58 PM
>  Subject: Re: [GSAS-Member] Bulk chemicals - help!
>
>
>  I used epsom salt on all my tanks.....I used to us "aquarium salt"  
> before, then, went through a faze and used cichlid salt for my  
> cichlids, then found epsom salt, and found it to be much cheaper. So  
> now I used it on all tanks, and all my fish. I use it on my 2  
> goldfish tanks, which have goldies, dojos, and corys. Also on my  
> Trophues tank, with bristle nose pleco, and also on my Mbuna tank,  
> with clown loaches, and bristle nose plecos, without any problems on  
> any of them. I have used salt with guppies, mollies, angels,  
> gouramies....and anything else I have had in the past..just cant  
> think of them right now....
>
>  I dont have to worry about ph, for its 8.2 out of the tap, so thats  
> good for the cichlids =}, the only fish which have had somewhat of a  
> problem it seems is the mollies....I never could keep them....not  
> sure why...
>
>  Trish
>
>
>  --- On Sun, 7/27/08, Connie Carlson 
> <nwconniec@hotmail.com<mailto:nwconniec@hotmail.com 
> >> wrote:
>
>> From: Connie Carlson <nwconniec@hotmail.com<mailto:nwconniec@hotmail.com 
>> >>
>> Subject: Re: [GSAS-Member] Bulk chemicals - help!
>> To: "Greater Seattle Aquarium Society member chat" <gsas-member@thekrib.com 
>> <mailto:gsas-member@thekrib.com>>
>> Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 11:02 AM
>> Steev (or anyone else that has an opinion about this),
>>
>> Can you say more??  Why is it good for the other fish?
>> What does it do, and in what quantities if we are adding it
>> to tanks/fry containers?   Different for each species, i.e.
>> koi vs. guppies??  I have heard/read in several places it
>> is good to add salts to the livebearer tanks, but to date
>> have only used the commercial marine salt mixes, and always
>> feel like I am throwing the Hail-Mary pass when guessing how
>> much to add.  I would love an alternative to that...
>>
>> And any reason why didn't you list the
>> ancistrus/plecos?  Salts NOT good for them?
>>
>> Connie
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: Steev Ward<mailto:steevward@yahoo.com<mailto:steevward@yahoo.com 
>> >>
>>  To: Greater Seattle Aquarium Society member
>> chat<mailto:gsas-member@thekrib.com<mailto:gsas-member@thekrib.com>>
>>  Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 9:24 AM
>>  Subject: Re: [GSAS-Member] Bulk chemicals - help!
>>
>>
>>  It's mostly because carbonates raise the pH and
>> sulfates don't. So sulfates aren't
>>  really buffers. But people might have other reasons for
>> avoiding sulfates. In marine
>>  tanks I think people avoid adding any sulfates. Otherwise
>> Magnesium sulfate, epsom
>>  salts, is great stuff. I think it is good to add for LOTS
>> of fish, not just cichlids.
>>  Especially livebearers, goldfish, koi, rainbowfish,
>> "sharks", corys, and barbs.
>>
>>
>>  --- Clifford Miller
>> <clifford@clevergeek.com<mailto:clifford@clevergeek.com<mailto:clifford@clevergeek.com%3Cmailto:clifford@clevergeek.com
>>  
>> >>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> While the topic was up I thought I'd get some
>> opinions on the buffering
>>> agents I'm using.  Better to use Magnesium
>> Carbonate than sulfate?
>>>
>>> I currently use a mix of epsom salts, baking soda
>> and marine salt in my
>>> cichlid tanks.  Nice and cheap, and easy to get at
>> any drug store if not
>>> already on hand. The fish all seem to be doing well
>> (I haven't lost any
>>> fish yet, including the 13 daffodils that I think
>> were from Erik.)
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Cliff
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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