Re: [GSAS-Member] Was Bulk chemicals - now Salts...and fin rot in guppies...

[matt kaufman <igotadose@hotmail.com>]

I was in a guppy-only club for a few years and picked up some hints from the 
champion guppy breeders regarding care of guppies and breeding and raising for 
show.
 
1) Guppy tails are very fragile. When the lights go out, many a guppy will rest 
its tail on the bottom of the tank. The breeders there kept all bare-bottom 
tanks that they kept *very* very clean'
2) They never fed bloodworms. Paste foods that they made up (with much secrecy 
about the formulas). Problem with frozen bloodworms is the filth they're 
harvested from. I personally haven't had problems with the 'hikari bio-pure' 
brand but i use it sparingly with my fish
3) Nothing else was kept with guppies - other fish find those tails 
irresistable, and being long-time inbred mutants like all fancy guppy strains, 
the fish aren't very vigorous
4) 1 tsp salt/gallon is ok but the primary concern is water changes - daily. 
Most of the better breeders had flow-through systems that ran daily or did a 
lot of water changes.
5) Temp. 80-82. Sure, they'll live in other conditions, but they thrive at 
warmer temps, again because the fish aren't very vigorous. Most weren't too 
careful about their water conditions, i.e., soft water is fine, as long as you 
keep it clean
6) Don't overcrowd. No more than a dozen fish in a 10 gallon tank.
7) Gentle filtration is best - again, don't want to strain that tail.
 
 
HTH. In my opinion, fancy guppies aren't a great community fish, they're 
typically too fragile to compete with other fish. Breeders tend to keep 1 line 
in 8-10 10 gallon tanks and cull *a lot*. I kept a nice red delta strain going 
for awhile but could never compete with the big boys; it was a *lot* of work, 
way more than killies or cichlids.



> From: laurelthequeen@gmail.com> To: gsas-member@thekrib.com> Date: Mon, 28 
> Jul 2008 07:22:21 -0700> Subject: Re: [GSAS-Member] Was Bulk chemicals - now 
> Salts...and fin rot in guppies...> > I have tap water with a pH of 8.4 at 
> home in Mountlake Terrace. The > pH is very high, but the buffering capacity 
> is almost nil (2-3º KH), > so I buffer my water to ensure that I don't get 
> massive pH drops over > the week as waste builds up (nitric acid).> > 
> Increasing one's GH will help to mimic the natural habitat of your > fish. 
> Doing a google search for "water parameters XXfishXXX" will > help to 
> determine what your fish's specific needs are. Adding just > epsom salts to a 
> tank will increase GH, but not necessarily mimic > their natural habitat. 
> There are other minerals that are there in the > wild that the fish "need" as 
> well. That's why marine salt is > suggested in combination with epsom salts, 
> and as 1 of 3 parts in the > "rift lake buffer recipe" listed on 
> cichlid-forum.> > As far as I know, there are no natural algae-eaters that 
> thrive in > hard water conditions. That said, I've had 2 bristlenosed plecos 
> in > my Malawi tank with a pH of 8.0-8.2 and gh and kh sitting around > 
> 12-17º. They do ok, but I'd prefer fish that are "happy" in harder > water.> 
> > I'm bad at diagnosing diseases/problems, but you my consider posting > in 
> the illness/nutrition forum at cichlid-forum.com. They're very > helpful, 
> quick, and don't deal solely in cichlids.> > Laurel> On Jul 27, 2008, at 
> 10:41 PM, Connie Carlson wrote:> > > 8.2 tap water?? where do you live???> >> 
> > SO, lots of fish seem to GET salt in their tanks by their keepers, > > but 
> I still don't understand why. Does it mimic some specific > > condition in 
> the wild? Is it just a disease preventative?? If so, > > what is a 
> therapeutic level/dosage, and how do you know when you > > have it?> >> > I 
> am having a terrible time controlling fin rot in my guppy tank. > > In the 
> last month I have tried adding anywhere from 2 to 6 > > tablespoons of 
> aquarium salt for the 29 gallon tank, added post > > water changes; it does 
> not seem to help a bit. So then the > > medications got tried. I have treated 
> with a fungal cure; that > > seemed to get rid of the jagged edged cases, 
> only to have the > > melting tailfin type show up. Treated that with a round 
> of Maracyn; > > that seemed to help the juvenille and adult guppies, but the 
> fry > > that were fine before, now they have tail rot even after the > > 
> treatments! They look fine, and suddenly they don't; wasting away > > from 
> the tail forward. Moved the fry to a new tank.... a ten > > gallon one with 
> coral substrate; latest thing the guy at The Fish > > Store said to try, and 
> I added two tablespoons of salt but that was > > a blind guess. Am now 
> treating individual fry with a dose of > > methylene blue to each fish that 
> looks sick. Some survive that > > treatment some don't; too s!> > oon to tell 
> if it is curing the overall problem. Very > > frustrating.... and time 
> consuming... and disheartening to lose > > fish, even if they are small. And 
> for the record I do think it > > started after I fed the whole group of them 
> frozen bloodworms a few > > times; have long since stopped. I don't know 
> where else all these > > diseases could have come from.> >> > To borrow one 
> of the pet phrases of Tom Myers (an instructor of > > mine): The more I learn 
> about all of this, the more I think I am > > just reaching a higher state of 
> confusion!> > Connie> > ----- Original Message -----> > From: 
> Trish<mailto:snips36@yahoo.com>> > To: Greater Seattle Aquarium Society 
> member chat<mailto:gsas-member@thekrib.com > > >> > Sent: Sunday, July 27, 
> 2008 6:58 PM> > Subject: Re: [GSAS-Member] Bulk chemicals - help!> >> >> > I 
> used epsom salt on all my tanks.....I used to us "aquarium salt" > > before, 
> then, went through a faze and used cichlid salt for my > > cichlids, then 
> found epsom salt, and found it to be much cheaper. So > > now I used it on 
> all tanks, and all my fish. I use it on my 2 > > goldfish tanks, which have 
> goldies, dojos, and corys. Also on my > > Trophues tank, with bristle nose 
> pleco, and also on my Mbuna tank, > > with clown loaches, and bristle nose 
> plecos, without any problems on > > any of them. I have used salt with 
> guppies, mollies, angels, > > gouramies....and anything else I have had in 
> the past..just cant > > think of them right now....> >> > I dont have to 
> worry about ph, for its 8.2 out of the tap, so thats > > good for the 
> cichlids =}, the only fish which have had somewhat of a > > problem it seems 
> is the mollies....I never could keep them....not > > sure why...> >> > Trish> 
> >> >> > --- On Sun, 7/27/08, Connie Carlson 
> <nwconniec@hotmail.com<mailto:nwconniec@hotmail.com > > >> wrote:> >> >> 
> From: Connie Carlson <nwconniec@hotmail.com<mailto:nwconniec@hotmail.com > >> 
> >>> >> Subject: Re: [GSAS-Member] Bulk chemicals - help!> >> To: "Greater 
> Seattle Aquarium Society member chat" <gsas-member@thekrib.com > >> 
> <mailto:gsas-member@thekrib.com>>> >> Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 11:02 AM> 
> >> Steev (or anyone else that has an opinion about this),> >>> >> Can you say 
> more?? Why is it good for the other fish?> >> What does it do, and in what 
> quantities if we are adding it> >> to tanks/fry containers? Different for 
> each species, i.e.> >> koi vs. guppies?? I have heard/read in several places 
> it> >> is good to add salts to the livebearer tanks, but to date> >> have 
> only used the commercial marine salt mixes, and always> >> feel like I am 
> throwing the Hail-Mary pass when guessing how> >> much to add. I would love 
> an alternative to that...> >>> >> And any reason why didn't you list the> >> 
> ancistrus/plecos? Salts NOT good for them?> >>> >> Connie> >> ----- Original 
> Message -----> >> From: Steev 
> Ward<mailto:steevward@yahoo.com<mailto:steevward@yahoo.com > >> >>> >> To: 
> Greater Seattle Aquarium Society member> >> 
> chat<mailto:gsas-member@thekrib.com<mailto:gsas-member@thekrib.com>>> >> 
> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 9:24 AM> >> Subject: Re: [GSAS-Member] Bulk 
> chemicals - help!> >>> >>> >> It's mostly because carbonates raise the pH 
> and> >> sulfates don't. So sulfates aren't> >> really buffers. But people 
> might have other reasons for> >> avoiding sulfates. In marine> >> tanks I 
> think people avoid adding any sulfates. Otherwise> >> Magnesium sulfate, 
> epsom> >> salts, is great stuff. I think it is good to add for LOTS> >> of 
> fish, not just cichlids.> >> Especially livebearers, goldfish, koi, 
> rainbowfish,> >> "sharks", corys, and barbs.> >>> >>> >> --- Clifford Miller> 
> >> 
> <clifford@clevergeek.com<mailto:clifford@clevergeek.com<mailto:clifford@clevergeek.com%3Cmailto:clifford@clevergeek.com
>  > >> >>>> >> wrote:> >>> >>>> >>> While the topic was up I thought I'd get 
> some> >> opinions on the buffering> >>> agents I'm using. Better to use 
> Magnesium> >> Carbonate than sulfate?> >>>> >>> I currently use a mix of 
> epsom salts, baking soda> >> and marine salt in my> >>> cichlid tanks. Nice 
> and cheap, and easy to get at> >> any drug store if not> >>> already on hand. 
> The fish all seem to be doing well> >> (I haven't lost any> >>> fish yet, 
> including the 13 daffodils that I think> >> were from Erik.)> >>>> >>> 
> Thanks,> >>>> >>> Cliff> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> 
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