Re: [GSAS-Member] fin rot in guppies...

[Steev Ward <steevward@yahoo.com>]

Connie-
    Many people have similar problems with guppies these days, and it is 
doubtful that
bloodworms are the cause. However, any feeding with a food that releases soluble
nutrients into the water (like bloodworms) will exacerbate some external 
infections and
may actually "trigger" an outbreak. That's why you could feed the same food to 
another
tank with no ill effects. That said it is always possible to get "bad" 
bloodworms -
those that are very old, previously thawed, etc. Sometimes it is hard to tell 
the
difference except that good bloodworms, like good hamburger, should be 
red-looking, not
smell like bacteria, and not be oozing some brownish fluid. I agree with Tom 
that the
Hikari brand is very good and I've had no problems with it (in fact I favor it 
for
feeding weak fish because it has vitamins added to it). BUT I think that 
bloodworms
that sit in the tank for a while before being eaten can give the fish problems 
- that
would be true of any food, but more so for some. Occassionally a fish has a 
digestive
problem (like a blockage) after eating a lot of bloodworms, but that is usually 
only in
small fish. 
       
      Columnaris (a bacterium - Flexibacter columnare) is a big problem with 
guppies.
They bring it with them when you buy them. Columnaris outbreaks occur when the
temperature is right, there is plenty of organic material in the water, there 
are a lot
of fish, there is old food lying around or DEAD FISH, the pH is a bit too low 
for the
fish, there is some ammonia in the water, and/or when there is some damage to 
the ends
of the fins (or lips) of the fish so that Columnaris can get a start.

      Things you've said that indicate a Columnaris infection:
- "fin rot" 
- "in my guppy tank."
- "They look fine, and suddenly they don't."
- "Maracyn; that seemed to help"
- "wasting away from the tail forward"

    It is hard to knock back a strong outbreak of Columnaris. Maracyn seems to 
be the
best antibiotic to use, although others are sometimes recommended. Methylene 
Blue will
kill some of the bacteria and stain the tissue cells that it feeds on, so that 
will
slow it down. Lower temperatures (70 to 74) may slow the reproduction rate of 
the
bacteria. Salt is SUPPOSED to treat Columnaris, but often the results are less 
than
impressive. 

      Guppies can tolerate (like) a LOT of salt. So if you are using salt to 
treat a
disease condition you should be increasing it so you get up to about a 
tablespoon PER
GALLON. You can go higher than that for guppies but I don't remember how high - 
like
sea-water- if you do it gradually. 

     Columnaris  Complications:
1. Sometimes  Columnaris doesn't seem to respond to treatment, and you have to 
keep at
it a long time. 
2. Fish that are heavily damaged may not survive. (Remove heavily infected
individuals).
3  Other bacteria may infiltrate the wounds after the  Columnaris has been 
killed off.
4.  Protozoan parasites may spread the bacteria and make new "starting points" 
for
infection.(An Ich type treatment may help).
5. Uneaten food or fish waste may serve as a reservoir for the bacteria - 
promoting
relapses.(Stop feeding during treatment).
6. Heavily infected fish are incubation sites that increase the amount of  
Columnaris
bacteria in the tank.(Lots of water changes helps).
      
      Other guppy problems:

There is a protozoan called Tetrahymena that can be devastating to guppies, and 
may
occur with or without a bacterial infection. It eats into the flesh of the fish.
Symptoms are variable.

There is another problem with guppies that causes general inflammation and 
death (as if
a poison was involved) and seems to be caused by a virus. 

Steev
--- Tom Watson <onefish2fish@comcast.net> wrote:

> There two types in animal commonly referred to as "blood worms" one is
> Tubifex (SP?) worms also sometimes call sewer worms.  You usually get them
> live from fish store.  The other are true blood worm that aren't worms at
> all but chironimid larva (insect Larva). Tubifex are harvested from unclean
> places but usually by the time they are sold to hobbyists they systems have
> been purged through lack of feeding and constant water changes and fish love
> them.  The stuff sold as frozen blood worms are chironimid larva.  They come
> from the bottoms of lakes and streams.  They will not tolerate unclean
> condition.  Also most chironimid larva are cultured, not taken from the wild
> so are very clean.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gsas-member-bounces@thekrib.com
> [mailto:gsas-member-bounces@thekrib.com] On Behalf Of Betty Goetz
> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 9:56 AM
> To: Greater Seattle Aquarium Society member chat
> Subject: [GSAS-Member] frozen bloodworms (was) Re: Was Bulk chemicals - now
> Salts...and fin rot in guppies...
> 
> > 2) They never fed bloodworms. Paste foods that they made up (with much
> > secrecy about the formulas). Problem with frozen bloodworms is the filth
> > they're harvested from. I personally haven't had problems with the 'hikari
> > bio-pure' brand but i use it sparingly with my fish
> 
> Gosh, I didn't know this about bloodworms. When I get them in my daphnia
> culture tanks, they seem like a 'clean' food as they are sqirming about in
> the water column. Seems 'clean'. Using frozen bloodworms is what I think
> killed my Dario dario and it's even more annoying since I didn't HAVE to
> give them bloodworms. I was just trying to vary their diet since they took
> frozen brine so well and I was short on live food at the time. Live and
> learn. And I'm not sure of the brand...whatever is sold frozen at Denny's
> Pet World.
> 
> Betty Goetz
> 
> ___


      
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