It's remarkable how invigorating a long walk in the evening sunlight can be. Now, with the lights of downtown Toronto twinkling on for another night and shining in through the window of my study, things don't seem half as complicated as they did just a few hours ago. I apologize to everyone for putting you through the process of me "thinking out loud", but I live by myself and my fish won't talk back. As I noted earlier, the comments and suggestions that have been coming in over the past few days make it clear that on the major points or our "core values", pretty much everyone is in close agreement or at least willing to reach a mutually acceptable compromise. George was right when he said this whole thing started because of a discussion of Aquascaping in North America vs. how it is practiced in other parts of the world. I remember it well, and have it archived in case anyone still doubts it. That discussion did not revolve around gardening underwater, it was about the stylistic differences in both practice and approach among hobbyists in different parts of the world. So, the first core issue IS aquascaping, not necessarily JUST aquatic gardening. We are all primarily interested, I think, in freshwater aquariums, so I don't think anyone minds narrowing our focus to the freshwater aquascape. Should a beautiful brackish tank or a wonderful paludarium be submitted, it wouldn't bother me, and I don't see us wasting any more time arguing over it - we can accept them. This is not a general "fish show" or a "photo contest". Our focus always was, and shall remain, on the issue of aquascaping. When the initial discussion on the APD turned from aquascapes in general to actually discussing comparing them, I suggested using the Web as our "gallery". Everyone here is in agreement over that, and as long as we arrange things in such a manner that we are open to and capable of accepting mail-in entries, Karen and the AGA are not likely to mind either. Regarding AGA involvement - I'm sorry but the issue remains closed. I have spoken to George privately and explained my reasons, and I assure you that I do have them. Of those reasons I can tell you that having this affair taken seriously by 1.) the press; 2.) the aquarium industry; 3.) potential "heavyweight" Judges are very high on my list of priorities and I feel we stand a much better chance of having all three if we are WITH the AGA than would likely be the case should we be without that organization. The final key is of course 4.) the aquarium hobbist. If we can line up numbers one thru three, number four should hopefully beat a path to our door. I can also assure you all that I have no hidden adjenda here for my preference that this will hopefully be an AGA event. Within the aquarium hobby, I am a nobody. If I started knocking on corporate doors looking for donations of prizes for a "Web based aquascaping show" hosted by James Purchase, Esq. of Toronto, Canada, they would fall all over themselves laughing, after they shoved me out the door. Likewise the major aquarium hobby magazines - "James who???". I can imagine sending Horst Kipper an e-mail and asking that he act as a Judge for our little event. I'd be glad I don't wear lederhosen! Receiving the backing and the endorsement of the AGA should give us the stamp of approval necessary to be taken seriously where it matters first. The word used to initially describe the event was contest, and that is unfortunate. My initial idea was more of a Showcase. We have thrashed through that issue until we are all blue in the face, and we all finally concede that it is BEST if we have aspects of both. The SHOWCASE should be open to ALL Freshwater Aquascapes. We can worry about categorising them for display purposes once we get the submissions, that's no sweat. All submitted enteries shall be SHOWCASED on the Web and we will advertise accordingly. We ran into major problems however, over the issue of the contest. What to include, what to exclude, how to Judge, who to Judge, should we weight the judging process or not. Maybe you didn't run into as many problems over this issue as I did, but you all saw the problems I have been having with it. Some advocated restricting the Contest to planted aquariums, others advocated keeping it open to all; someone suggested that we put a bias spin on the judging to favour planted tanks over all other types. This last point seemed to gather a bit of momentum, at least in the comments that I have cut and pasted into my little secret archive here (I've got it all, and your names too....hehehehe) But I had and still have a major problem with preconceived notions of Judging. If we are going to hold a contest, I feel that we should get judges who can exercise their own opinions within possibly reasonable guidelines (along the lines of "it should be pleasing to the eye..." and not "the substrate surface shall be covered at least 70% by plants"). We also have a major problem in arriving at ANY comprehensive and all inclusive definition of just what constitutes a "planted tank". Remember the "Rift Lake Cichlid rock aquacape" suggesiton, where it is just algae covered rocks with _maybe_ a solitary clump of Vallisneria? It could be incredibly beautiful as an "aquascape", but the "bleach brigade" from the APD would have their Javex bottles out before you could say stop. So if we can't arrive at a suitable definition, why bother even trying? Going back to core values, if we accept that the focus of this event is aquascaping, then there is no way on God's good Earth that we can legitimatly restrict the Contest portion to just tanks that _we_ all like. I have finally come to the conclusion that as there is no simple, easy way to exclude ANY aquascape, we shouldn't even TRY to do so. Likewise with judging - if we can't agree on what a "planted aquarium" is, how can we bias the Judging in favour of it? Give the Judges guidelines, to be sure, or at least select Judges who are likely to have a good idea of what a really nice aquarium _can_ look like, and then sit back and let them do their jobs. Let the chips fall where they may. I say this in full recognition of my former harping on making sure we were in-line with core AGA values. However, the posted "Purpose" of the AGA says absolutely NOTHING about aquascaping. Nada, zip, ziltch. If the AGA, as an official body hasn't felt it necessary or possibly even desirable to place "Aquascaping" into their own core set of values, perhaps I have been wasting too much time and energy worrying about it for them. So, to sum up, _my_ personal preference for a set of "common goals" could possible be summarized and stated as follows: 1. This event is a Showcase and Competition of Freshwater Aquascapes, open to aquarists from all over the world. It is inclusive of attractive displays of any type. It is not a fish show nor a photography show. The focus of the event is on aquascaping in freshwater aquariums. 2. Entries may consist of hard copy photographs, slides or transparencies, or electronic images which have not been artificially altered other than in brightness, tone or gamma. (this might need some work). Submissions may be made via e-mail or using regular mail. 3. All submitted entries shall be Showcased on the Web-site and (possibly) a CD-ROM, which will be made available to the entrants and the general public at the end of the event for a nominal charge. 4. Entrants may, should they wish, request that their submission be excluded from consideration in the Contest portion of the event. 5. Judging of the Contest portion of the event, by an independent group of experienced Aquarists, shall be free from bias of any kind. Judges are to be provided with general guidelines only and expected to exercise their own good judgement in making their decisions. The decisions of the judges, in inclusion/exclusion of any entry and on their choices of winners, is final. Whew! Does anyone have anything to add/adjust/discuss on points 1 through 5 ? (and please, let's just stick to the common goals. My editorializing can go without comment.) We can perhaps focus my points with your input and then move to voting on them. The core values, like the name issue, should be democratically done. James Purchase Toronto AGA member ------------------ To unsubscribe from this list, e-mail majordomo@aquatic-gardeners.org with "unsubscribe aga-contest" in the body of the message. To subscribe to the digest version, add "subscribe aga-contest-digest" in the same message. 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