I tend to agree with everyone regarding the need to not give something tacky or inappropriate as a gift to the Judges as thanks for their work (and it WILL be work). Following the bruhaw that ensued over the "art vs craft" discussion of several months ago, I think that it's a safe bet than anyone we ask to act as a Judge is going to be involved in the hobby in some way (i.e. no art historians) and giving someone a piece of equipment they might not need is pointless. I don't really think that it is necessary for us to worry too much at this point over WHAT we give, just to agree that SOMETHING shall be given, and to set some parameters as to cost.... remember I brought it up in the context of the budget... It you remember our earlier discussions, I posted a proposed buget pretty much as follows: Projected Income $ 750.00 (Based on max of 300 entries - 50% AGA Members / 50% Non-AGA Members @ $5.00 per entry for non members only) Projected Expenses $ 689.00 Projected Surplus $ 61.00 Now, not factored into this is any sort of float or advance to Erik for the making of the CD-ROM's for public sale, nor is the income from such sales factored in (of course, we haven't even settled on a final sale price for them either). And if the cost of mailing prizes is less that an average of $20.00 each, the expenses will be lower. I could honestly see myself going to the AGA MC to ask for this kind of money, but adding another couple of hundred onto the Expenses for prizes for the judges could cause problems (like in scuttle the whole thing!) If we were to budget $25.00/gift that's an extra $125.00 + a possible $100.00 in shipping which has to come from SOMEWHERE..... and I don't know if the AGA will be willing/prepared/able to cough up that level of funding... Plus, what can you get that's NOT tacky for $25.00???????? $50.00 - $100.00 is more realistic, especially if we want them to be available in future years... Now, one avenue which WOULD (could???) work would be to raise the projected income of the event. To do so, we have several options... 1. Increase the entry fee. - I don't like this idea...... $5.00 is enough.... 2. Increase the number of possible entrants over 300. - This could cause problems with us getting swamped with work that we can't handle the first year... 3. Forget all about offering AGA members a free ride. All entries must pay the $5.00 per fee in order to participate...... Now, this I tend to like... $5.00 is not a lot of money, especially considering the market we are working with, and it would raise our projected Income to $1,500.00. And Karen DID say on several occassions that making this a "freebie" for AGA members was NOT a requirement for approval. If we elected to go with option #3, we could place a nice round figure in the budget for "Judges gifts" and not worry that we would hurt the AGA's bank balance. The organization would STILL be offering it's members a perk, just one that they have to pay a nominal fee to get involved in. This would aslo, in my view, tend to rule out any worries about our running a deficit. I'm more than confident that we can get 300 entries with a $5.00 fee.... anyone???? James Purchase Toronto ------------------ To unsubscribe from this list, e-mail majordomo@aquatic-gardeners.org with "unsubscribe aga-contest" in the body of the message. To subscribe to the digest version, add "subscribe aga-contest-digest" in the same message. Old messages are available at http://lists.thekrib.com/aga-contest