The thing that i feel makes long term maintenance of dwarf cichlids difficult is space. I'm maintaining two killifish, and although the personal project is only 8 years along now, there are some observations I can pass along. Culling for size/colour can be a disaster. The inheritance of these traits doesn't seem simple. The best approach, in my opinion, is to cull the extremely rare deformed fish and fish that don't grow and use all others. Nature culls randomly and only Pokemon evolve the way they're expected to. If you are aiming for your ideal form of pulcher then line breeding for traits is what you want to do, but remember the blue ram, compared to the perky, aggressive little wild fish. they've got size, they've got colour, and they've got downright wormy characters compared to wild fish. In aquaria, they are like different species. I don't know if you can get wild stock into Australia. I've kept them once (in Canada), and watched them a few times, and feel they are already very different from the aquarium forms. They were harder to breed, touchier about their water and more aggressive by quite a bit. They acted more like sp. 'sacrimontis', the black/red wild krib, than like aquarium forms. If i were in such a project (not knowing how it works in your country so maybe off base) I'd try to work a deal for wild fish, then set up to breed them in different locations with some kind of program for crossing back the lines that would develop with the different breeders having started from the same stock. Captivity may select for different survival traits pretty quickly, but at least that way, you could start with a wild 'form' and try to keep it looking like itself. If you look at the books, P. taeniatus is subdivided into a number of distinct morphs that breeders respect, but P. pulcher, in my opinion as diverse a fish but 'too familiar' doesn't get the same respect. People who would never cross taeniatus 'Lobe' with 'Loukoudje' will happily mix pulcher morphs. Then again, I love aquarium form pulcher... Gary ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!