OK, I found the news thread (it is in rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc under "how to kill fatally ill fish?"). Here is a summation (minus the jerks that weren't being serious or constructive, and without attributions, if you want to know who said what, I can find that too). 25% vodka or pure ethanol solution 6 oz. water, 2 oz. vodka - sleep almost immediately, stop breathing within 5 minutes standard anesthetic with many names: Tricaine, MS-222, MESAB, 3-aminobenzoic acid ethyl ester...25g bottle from Sigma (catalog #A-5040) for $10-$15 (US I assume) should last forever (from a neurobiology researcher that uses this stuff daily (I pressume not to kill, but to anesthetize...still has a 3/4 full bottle 4 years later) the dosage for this stuff is to put the fish in a small container with only enough water to cover, the add 1/8th teaspoon one whole post, titled What the FAQ says : Euthanasia It's come to this has it? You've read all the FAQs, found out everything you can about diseases, ailments and the proper treatments, asked for help from several knowledgeable sources and have come to the conclusion that you cannot nurse your fish back to health. And since you took on the responsibility of caring for the fish you now must find the most humane method in helping it to die. Several options exist for euthanizing your ill pet. They include chemicals, decapitation, and donation. The best method is probably through the use of chemicals. A few vets recommend an overdose of MS-222, a fish anesthetic. It can be purchased from chemical supply companies as MS-222, tricaine methanesulfonate or Ethyl 3-aminobenzoate, methanesulfonic acid salt. Immerse the fish in a container of 350 ppm MS-222 (350 mg MS-222 per liter of water) for 10 minutes. This is very humane and is non-traumatic for both the fish and owner. Another chemical method is the injection of pentothal into the abdominal cavity. This may be more difficult for the owner as syringes may be hard to come by and sticking animals with needles may not sit well with some people. It is almost painless for the fish if this helps ease your hesitations regarding this method. Finally one can use alcohol to euthanize a fish. Make a 1:5 (20%) solution of Vodka (or any other similar strong grain neutral alcohol) and water. Then place the fish into the container and it will simply `go to sleep=B4. These 3 methods are highly recommended as they are very humane. One method that has been recommended by a non-veterinary (but experienced Oscar breeder) type is the use of Alka-Seltzer. Place the fish in a shallow container of water and place 2 Alka-Seltzer tablets in a position under the gills. The fish supposedly will `fall asleep=B4 within minutes. A non-chemical but effective method is decapitation. Once again, some owners may be squeamish over this method. If done properly is quick and painless for the animal, and has the benefit of being cheap; most of us own knives but not anesthetics. Use a sharp knife and sever the spinal cord by quickly cutting down through the body just behind the eye at the level of the lateral line. The quicker you make this cut the better it will be for the fish. Remember to disinfect this knife after the procedure if you plan on using it for anything other than euthanizing fish. If you are unable to go through with any of the above methods try contacting a local university. It is possible that one of the departments in biology or similar fields will take your sick fish off your hands. They may use the fish for research and study its disease or will be able to dispose of it properly. Methods that are not recommended but are often mentioned include variations on freezing. Fish tend to suffer in these procedures. It does not matter whether they cool down slowly when you place them in a bowl of water in the freezer or if the water is already cold from the addition of ice cubes. Fish react to these methods in a negative way, and it is painful to watch. Finally one should NEVER flush a fish down the toilet. This is not an effective method of euthanasia but is a form of torture as the fish ends up in a septic tank or similar place where it is bathed in nasty chemicals and sewage before finally succumbing hours if not days later. vodka, light rum, or any clear grain alcohol (25%), but don't use whiskey or any dark alcohol (no explanation) one cited Dec.-Jan. 1999/2000 issue of In-Fisherman magazine, Dr. James D. Rose, professor in the Department of Psychology and Zoology and Physiology ant the University of Wyoming, Laramie, who wrote an article called "Can Fish Feel Pain?"...according to this, neuro-science research has clarified the neurological and psychological processes that cause pain (I assume he means the registration of pain), and fish don't have thebrain development necessar for the psychological experience of pain (personally, I would consider the source, and be hesitant to put too much faith in this, but if you do, then it really doesn't much matter how they die) someone else refuted this fairly convincingly, but this is moving off the subject and from there the conversation shifted more to the "Do fish feel pain" than "how to kill" topic hope this helps, though I'm sure it is probably too long winded for anyone to actually read all the way through :) Cameron ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. 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