I'm still here, and still following - it's just that my General Manager was in an auto wreck, and my share of the extra workload is keeping me tied up right now. This would've been a day off, but I'm about to go in to cover the second half of the day for her. Was out to midnight closing the restaurant last night. I just wanted to point out that we needn't get too far astray on expanding the field of available predators. First off, I have plenty of fry predators already available. I've mentioned the fact that I let a lot of fry "fend" for themselves in a tank (they get pretty crafty to do so in some of my tanks) to keep populations under control. Apisto- specific tanks at my place are not Apisto- exclusive (as with the species tank). Along with that, it's not necessarily the breeding/brooding behaviors that I'm solely interested in. I've been considering this type of setup, especially where scale is concerned, for quite a while for the observational opportunities it presents. A recent response of mine to the APD concerning the appearance of fish in true "black water" environments got me to thinking along the lines of camouflage strategies and external markings. There's usually a reason any organism develops a distinct characteristic, as Nature, outside of playing around with little jokes like the appendix, usually is pretty efficient at filling _needs_. And Mike Wise brought up an interesting point that I _hadn't_ taken into consideration yet - if I use too efficient a predator, the prey in question may not even realize there _is_ a threat and there's _no_ response. Then it's just simple population control, and hopefully I should already have made provisions along the way for that. I have to admit, there are predators out there with interesting lives of their own - which is why I keep some - but it's nailing down a lot of the stimulus/response/adaptability questions of the *Apisto* that is the focus of this exercise. The Dwarf Pike was the the first thing that popped into my head. Considering the size of the tank involved in the first "trial run", I'm thinking I should modify the requirement that it be a constant threat to an _adult_ Apisto in favor of population density and space requirements to support such a predator. Maybe for now I _will_ stick to just expanding the opportunities for observing brood behavior. Perhaps later, I can build a small pond - one of the install- it- yourself landscaping ponds for scale reference - for the more complex response reactions. C. regani (and the rather intriguing suggestion of the Leaf) is definitely on the consideration list. Is there one that might be useful as a threat against, say, juvenile or adolescent Apistos? (still thinking along the lines of Borelli)... -Y- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://www.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!