Greg, I'd bet your "ortmanni" are actually A. steindachneri. A. steindachneri has been sold in the trade under the "ortmanni" name for decades. Hope this helps. Mike Wise Engagg@aol.com wrote: > I bought all the "ortmanni" > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. > For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, > email apisto-request@listbox.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com.