Update: After a couple of nights the eggs got eaten. Not unexpected. Meanwhile the Keyholes in another tank are still swimming with a cloud of fry despite having almost as big a cloud of predators hovering and hoping for a snack. Proof at least that pairs which show reasonably healthy bonded behaviour at the beginning can learn to get even better. I was interested that Mike Jacobs suggested turning up the heat to 85 degrees. I know rams can tolerate high heat, but do they actually prefer to spawn in high heat conditions? Mine were at 80 degrees. Any other comments on "perfect water". What pH and hardness? Or is it the number of water changes you are talking about? Cheers ------------------------------------------------------------ from John McCrone ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com.