Hi Dave, First the disclaimers. I'm a chicken.<G> What works for me might not work for you. I still like a Bigger Tank than 15 at least 20 and bigger if you can go there. And as everyone knows by now I don't worry about pH so much since you already have them use to a low pH that's good. I do keep my eye on reducing the TDS. Which as you probably know takes in both General Hardness and Carbonate Hardness. Most sources I've read or listened to have them real low on the hardness reading 2-10 dkh. Now the voices in the back of my head are saying K. I. S. S. and It's all about the DOCS. That is "Keep it simple Stupid" and "It's all about the Dissolved Organic Compounds." If you've read this list for a while you would know who those voices were. Any how Patience, Water chances and live food. The keys to success. Good Luck JerryB ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the Apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com.