The pheremones could be the cause. i have one of the colored up female cacs, when i first got them she tried and tried and tried to get the male to spawn, but he wanted nothing to do with her. She has now given up trying to seduce the male. Who knows what the problem is. I think Big John has the right idea about finding the biggest normal looking female. Greg ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. apisto-digest@listbox.com also available. Web archives at http://lists.thekrib.com/apisto Trading at http://blox.dropship.org/mailman/listinfo/apisto_trader