To start, a note... a few weeks ago I threw a tantrum because I lost my female panduro... I would like to thank everyone who offered help (you know who you are)... I have since managed to find a new panduro female at the LFS and she has already laid eggs (around 20 -- it's her first, so I don't expect much). Jason, I have not attempted to breed my pertensis yet, but have generally had good luck with panduros. I have a friend, however, who generally has bad luck with panduros... dad eats the eggs. My water for panduros has generally been around 2 degrees GH, 1 degree KH, pH 5.8, temp 83 F. I perform 25% water changes twice a week. They have tended to court for between a week and 3 months before spawning. I think the trick with panduros is patience, the removal of the male if he likes to eat eggs, and preventing suicide. --Cliff ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@majordomo.pobox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!