Kym, Mikrogeophagus is a dwarf genus but all Biotodoma species (B. cupido, B, wavrini, B. sp. Santarem and possibly a couple more) are medium sized cichlids...about 6 inches max., but most Apisto people will enjoy them. I've caught them in extremely soft water (<10uS conductivity) and kinda soft water (120uS conductivity). Vinny ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@majordomo.pobox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!