Okay, you guys can kill me....I am just adding on one last thing to the NH3/NH4+ thread, and you just thought it was dead. I couldn't check email that month.... just one last thing...just FYI NH#/NH4+ in HUMANs...gag...Frank can kill me too. We actually use this in our bodies too. NH3 is made in the kidney (proximal tubules to be exact) it is freely diffuseable across membranes and in another part of kidney (the distal collecting duct/tubules) it is converted in NH4+ which doen't diffuse across membranes and gets excreted in urine (and attracts those nasty catfishes in the amazon...now Frank will really get me :) ) It is the way we excrete acid in our body besides blowing it off. It was just ironic, here I was reading about all the NH3 debates and I had two patients with disorders of this system the same day. One was in the ICU, the other it was a chronic problem. Oh well, no more medical stuff. If it was too boring let me know, and I will behave myself. Kathy ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@majordomo.pobox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!