Hello All, I've been waiting for someone to bring genetics to this string. I was wondering specifically about the effects of inbreeding depression. Others have spoken of the benefits of breeding a strain of apistos through more than two generations with regards to keeping a variety of species in the hobby, but perhaps this inbreeding also becomes a factor in the poor parenting skills of subsequent generations. If deleterious genes can accumulate and effect other aspects of survival, then why not parental behaviour Take the blue ram as an example. I like this fish, but would never spend money on anything but wild caughts. I find that breeding aside (WAAAY aside), just keeping Asian bred blue rams and Asian bred "German" blue rams ALIVE can be a hit or miss proposition. If these "power bred" farmed fish are so messed up genetically that they can't necessarily stay ALIVE, then what is that suggesting about potentially hard wired behaviours like brood care? Is it any coincidence that the relatively newer (and potentially less inbred) M. altispinosa has both better rates of survival and seemingly brood rearing as well? Is it any coincidence that others have reported similarly successful experiences with blue rams when they first entered the hobby decades ago? Please note that I am not against breeding a line of apistos for multiple generations, I enjoy the fact that a wider variety of species are available because of this. I am only suggesting that the potential effects of this inbreeding be considered along with the volatile " to pull the eggs or not to pull the eggs " debate. Just My 2 Cents Andy samaroo@aracnet.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@majordomo.pobox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!