RE: Amazonian fish and hard water

["Griffiths, Richard" <rgriffit@visa.com>]

There's a guy in Sacramento that raises Discus--some 80-100 breeding pair
that he keeps in generally 8.0+ water. He did a number of experiments many
years ago, moving pairs from one pH to another (i.e., 6.8 to 7.6 then to
8.0) to determine viability, tolerances, etc. His fish continued to spawn;
albeit with a differing hatch rate, but they continued to perform. He also
did the same with temperature tolerances and breeding, though I don't recall
the numbers there, except to say that he kept his fish lower than what the
books call for, and they bred with regularity. 

A friend who was an angel and Discus breeder in Los Angeles did not treat
his water (ph a minimum of 7.8, with an average of 8.1 pH), but kept the
building at 80+, ran a drip irrigation method which changed 250% of the
water daily on his fish, and he fed extremely well; he had between
15,000-20,000 angel fry a week going; and a couple of hundred discus fry.

Since few Discus are 'wild caught' anymore, and what is out in the hobby has
acclimated itself to what 'is', you can see significant variation in ranges
for fish. Same goes for the 'angel'. The 'scalare' are fairly adaptable,
only not succeeding at real extremes, while the newer angels, 'altum' and (I
forget the species name, sorry), require attention to detail in their
environment.

It appears that the major, driving force, in being able to breed discus, or
angels, in any water (same with catfish, too) is the water quality (lots of
water changes/reduced nitrate/nitrite issues) and lots of food. Translate
all that to good care.

	BTW: I currently have three discuss in a 60 gallon tank, pH 8.2,
hardness is high (off my scale) with some apisto's, central american
cichlids, and some livebearers, and all do fine. The temperature is room
temperature, which now, in the winter is somewhere in the high 60's at the
moment. They also suffered through high 80's during our 'hot spell' in
July--September when the room temperatures got up to 95 during the day.

	So, keeping discus in other than 'Amazonian water' can happen, and
does, with more success than some would anticipate.

> ----------
> From: 	lewis weil[SMTP:leweil@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 	Friday, November 06, 1998 5:11 PM
> To: 	apisto@majordomo.pobox.com
> Subject: 	Amazonian fish and hard water
> 
> Do not be alarmed I am not keeping soft water fish in hard water I am 
> just wondering if you all have had success with this. I have met two 
> people who keep have owned discus for a long time and have them in a pH 
> near 8.0. Has anyone had success with conditions such as this? I am sure 
> they do not breed but I am amazed that they do so well in a tank with 
> water like that. (I know fish a VERY adaptive but discus in water like 
> this is amazing to me.)
> 
> 
> Lewis
> 
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