Re: Rams de-selection

[Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise@bewellnet.com>]

Joel,

I for one don't condemn any kind of breeding except for most purposeful crossing
of species and their sale (Red Parrot Cichlid, Yuck!! Red Velvet Sword are great.
I just wish you could find them that looked like they did in the 60s & 70s.).
Rams were messed up long before you got into raising them, unless you've been
doing it for the past 50 years. The original Rams were imported to Florida in
1947 or 48 and were bred just like angels. Hobbyists had no problems breeding
these fish. Around 1955 - 1960 aquarium articles mention increasing difficulties
in breeding these fish at home with the parents. Five to 10 years of pulling eggs
seems to have removed the parental instincts in commercial fish. Commercial
breeders, like you, do this for a valid reason. There's nothing wrong with this.
We have to realize that 99%+ of all Rams sold are not for breeding, but for show
just like angels. For me, however, I've had more success with wild Rams than
domestic, both breeding and healthwise (mostly because of the preponderance of
problem Asian bred fish in commercial circles). If I want Rams for breeding I
will always buy wild or search out parental raised offspring from a
hobbyist/breeder.

Keep up the good work.

Mike Wise

joel and angie wasdyke wrote:

> If pulling eggs is going to be condemned as the work of lesser mortal
> fish-keepers, someone needs to let the angel breeders, most commercial
> discus breeders and a whole lot of african mouth-brooder keepers in on the
> secret.
>
> For most of the species that I keep I have no problem letting the fish hatch
> and raise the young.  Most species have no problem.  For some reason rams
> are an exception.  If this is a learned or genetic trait, does it mean that
> I should destroy the breeding lines that I have now.  On the other hand, I
> have young african mouth-brooders that I artificially hatched that have no
> problem brooding young until release.  Does this make them smarter or less
> able to learn from their genetic and environmental past than rams.
>
> On the other hand, it all depends on the goal. For most of the species I
> have I raise a spawn here and their and am just happy to have them spawning.
> For the rams, I am working up to raising several hundred a month and the ram
> pairs don't have the room to do that kind of brooding.
>
> Joel WasDyke
>
> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:13:48 -0000
> From: "Helen Burns" <hlnburns@thefree.net>
> Subject: Re: Rams de-selection
>
> Mike,
> I commented on this list a few months ago that all to often hobbyists are
> too eager to remove eggs.  By doing this it can also lead to breaking pair
> bonding.  I have never removed any spawnings from my cichlids, large or
> small species.
> I totally agree with all that you have said, it is just a pity more
> aquarists don't feel the same.
> Helen.
> From: Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise@bewellnet.com>
> >Being a basically lazy person, I rarely pull eggs. After 4-6 spawns my
> dwarfs
> >usually figure out how reproduce on their own. If this doesn't happen, I
> then
> >check to see if there are any physical or social parameters that could be
> changed
> >to help reproduction along. I will artificially hatch only extremely rare
> fish,
> >usually on the first and second spawns. The first two spawns are often
> >unsuccessfully hatched by them anyway. After this, if I have a batch of
> healthy
> >fry, I let them try it themselves from then on. In this way the fish get
> the
> >experience to reproduce on their own.
>
> >Mike Wise
>
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