Tom, Just curious. I consider a fish bred only when it produces viable fry that can grow to maturity. If they spawn and only produce eggs or non-viable fry, I consider this spawning not breeding. So from my why of thinking you didn't breed checkerboards until they were placed in soft water. I agree with you, however, that 80ppm, ~ 4.5ºdH, is soft enough for most black water species. Many breeder feel that it is the carbonate hardness that inhibits soft water fish eggs from hatching. I wonder how many hobbyist claim they "bred" a certain fish when all it did was spawn for them. The trick is to get viable fry. Just my opinion. By the way, anyone who can get Satanoperca daemon to survive, much less reproduce, has my respect. Mike Wise Fi205sh@aol.com wrote: > I have kept & bred D. filamentosus & maculatus in Milwaukee tap water, DH & KH > of 10, pH of 7.6 out of the tap. ... ... I did not get fry from the Dicrossus or > candidi or the > daemon untill I softened the water a little. I run about 80ppm tap and R-O mix > in my soft tanks. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com. > For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, > email apisto-request@majordomo.pobox.com. > Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@majordomo.pobox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!