Re: Brazil fish pics

[Marco Lacerda <marcolacerda@ax.apc.org>]

Mike & Diane Wise wrote:

> Does A. uaupesi (Rotkeil) come from the lower Rio Negro? I didn't know they
> occurred south of the mouth of the Rio Uaupés.

I've collected A. sp. Rotkeil (which is maybe identical to A. uaupesi) 
at Rio Urubaxi mouth to Rio Negro, near the village of Sao Francisco. 
Although not lower Rio Negro, it can't be considered upper Rio Negro.

> At first I thought they were A.
> sp. Vierstreifen (4-stripes), but that didn't agree with the collecting location,
> either. This is why I labeled them A. sp. indet. (indeterminent); I just wasn't
> sure. I'd like to see them when they are fully mature.

A couple of times I collected similar young fishes at middle Rio Negro, 
that latter turned out to be A. sp. Rotkeil.
It's a good idea that Kathy & Erik show us more pictures when they 
become adults.

 
> > 4. A. paucisquamis
> I think you are right. That was my first thought, too, but just accepted on faith
> that Kathy was correct in saying they were all the same species. The clamped
> caudal and dorsal fins made it hard to tell.

Yes, I only cannot be 100% sure that they're A. paucisquamis bcs 
juvenile A. mendezi look similar, although they can be distinguished by 
caudal fin pattern (some of Kathy & Erik's photos don't reveal exactly 
the caudal fin pattern; however, the ones I could see, are all A. 
paucisquamis).
 
> P. semifasciata may be correct, but it is a more elongate species, with more
> longitudinal scales, and the black medial stripe extends from the mouth back as
> far as the origin of the dorsal fin. Kathy's fish is a much chunkier species and
> the medial stripe ends on the flanks behind the operculum - well before the
> origin of the dorsal fin (Well, if you look real hard at Kathy's fish it does
> look like it runs intermittently farther back.). I'll stick with P. brevis-group
> for now. Either way, they are closely related. In addition Géry thinks that P.
> semifasciata is a possible junior synonym for P. laeta. I don't know what he
> bases this on, considering P. laeta is described from a single specimen - well,
> actually half a specimen, since the head half of the body is missing!

Yes, the Pyrrhulina present taxonomy is very confusing; Marilyn Weitzman 
is the best authority in the genus, she can tell to which species it 
belongs much better than all of us. I identified as P. semifasciata 
following Michael Goulding's book "Rio Negro, rich life in poor water". 
Goulding published an apendix with all Rio Negro fishes he collected, 
and only one species of Pyrrhulina is listed: P. semifasciata. On page 
xi of same book (acknowledgements), the author says that Marilyn 
Weitzman identified "Lebiasinidae and several small characins". So I 
follow her opinion for P. semifasciata.
Although Géry is best available Characin book, it has many mistakes, so 
I'm always somewhat cetic about his opinions.

[cow pond] 
> I'm not certain either. I actually think there might be 3 different species here.
> Apisto 1 & 4 are deeper bodied, more regani-like species, with abdominal stripes
> and an oval caudal peduncle spot. These actually look like a blue form of A. sp.
> Gelbwangen (Yellow-cheeks), if there is such a thing. The last apisto (bottom,
> right) also has abdominal stripes, but the c.p. spot looks more elongate. It
> looks very much like a fish I once found as a contaminant with pencilfish (N.
> marginatus & trifasciatus). I called it A. sp. aff. regani. The remaining 3 (# 2,
> 3, 5 left) are the ones that look the most like A. sp. Blauglanz (Blue-sheen). On
> first glance, their bodies have the deep body appearance of the regani-complex.
> The lateral band, however, has the narrow zigzag look of a resticulosa-complex
> fish. They have a c.p. spot similar to Blauglanz. The suborbital (cheek) stripe
> is similar, too, broad at the eye and narrowing to a point at the edge of the
> operculum. Their deep bodies are atypical of Blauglanz, but one of the B&W photos
> in Koslowski's introduction shows a breeding deep bodied female. Like I said,
> "Very close to A. sp. Blauglanz (Blue-sheen)" but maybe not the same.

Yes, I agree with you. The cow pond Apistos Erik & Cathy collected are 
really confusing stuff! There might be 3 different species, or just a 
single, highly variable species. But it makes me think that there are at 
least two different spp. at cowpond.

> > Solimões (variousŠ):
> > 1, 2, 3 and 4: A. cf. regani 
> #1 sure looks like a yellow aggie to me. #3-5 are hard to tell because the flash
> washed out the flanks. These may be (#3) Blauglanz and (#4&5) Gelbwangen.

Yes, I agree.
 
> > 5. and 6.:
> I don't think so. Abramites species are much deeper bodied, laterally compressed
> with a post ventral keel, and have a wider anal fin (>10 branched rays). They
> also have a more oblique stripe pattern. Kathy's fish appear more fusiform, with
> very little lateral compression. I'll stick with Leporinus sp. fasciatus-group
> for now. Abramites & Leporinus are very closely related genera, however.

It could be, let's see when they grow up. Abramites juveniles are 
slender bodied, like the fish in the photo. I must confess I'm not 
specialist in Anostomidae.
 
> > Creek off Rio Negro:
> The caudal pattern seems to break, like in A. meinkeni.

Yes, like I explained I didn't consider A. pertensis-related species. So 
it can be very well A. meinkeni. By the way, there is a very good photo 
of A. pertensis on its original description. How does the caudal-fin 
pattern look like? I remember that A. pertensis type locality is Rio 
NegroŠ
 
> > 7. (second plane fish): A. paucisquamis
> I agree with this one.
> Your IDs are as good as mine. Most of the photos don't show enough details.

Yes, I agree; best will be seen when the fish grow up.

> > Locations can't remember:
> > 1. A. cf. regani
> It looks like a pertensis-group fish to me. Which one, I'm not sure.

Could be.

> > Comments, please!
> > Marco.

As above!




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