I have seen what you call "sneaker" males....I just call them undesirable. I see these guys after removing the more colorful, more robust males. They develop the extended dorsal rays but have no color. However it is usually only a few...I still have way more females than males. I also see colorful females (which I originally thought were males). I am sure they are female though...black pelvics, yellow body, non-lyrate caudal....or am I wrong. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!