In my view there are many good reasons why we should avoid removing fry from the parents. In the long term it is not just the parenting behaviour which we may lose (I think it is inevitable that if the selection pressure for effective parenting is removed, over a relatively small number of generations we will observe poorer parents). It is also possible that the breeding strategies of males and females may be affected. Take, for example, the extreme case of obligatory monogomy and biparental care of the young (and i know that few, if any apisto practise this). If we start to remove the fry, then males that have a tendency to leave the females to care for the young and start to dabble in polygamy, will always produce more young than a diligent and faithful father. (In the wild this may not the case, and the male may obtain a higher lifetime reproductive output by helping to care for one brood at a time). Over time we will artificially select for polygamy and no brood care. A further result for this may be a change in the pressures acting on sexual selection, which is likely the main reason for some of the stunning colouration we observe in the males of many species. Any changes here, could over time affect colouration. (Although I realise that by selecting for polygamy we may in fact increase the intensity of sexual selection!). Anyway, my main point is that if we hope to retain the behavioural and morphological characteristics of wild caught fish, even after many generations of captive breeding, then we have to exercise care in the conditions in which we keep our fish. Their environment should be as natural as possible and removing young is the antithesis of this! Justin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!